Movement from Fetish to Reality
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Questioning (imported)
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Movement from Fetish to Reality
Another question for the eunuchs out there. Many of you have chosen to undergo castration because you wanted to control your sex drives, feminize, become impotent, etc. However, the castration fetishist is also a very common visitor to this site. I certainly fall under that heading; I first became interested in castration 8 years ago purely because the idea was a turn-on. However, I feel that over the past eight years that fetish has evolved into a genuine desire to have it done. I wonder how common this is--the movement from fetish to reality--and how satisfied those eunuchs are who made the leap from fantasy to reality.
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unencumbered (imported)
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Re: Movement from Fetish to Reality
That's how it started with me and I am satisfied with the results, having gone through with it. But I'm only one person on this site and don't pretend to reply for anyone else here.Questioning (imported) wrote: Mon Jul 22, 2013 3:11 pm I wonder how common this is--the movement from fetish to reality--and how satisfied those eunuchs are who made the leap from fantasy to reality.
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Hash (imported)
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Re: Movement from Fetish to Reality
unencumbered (imported) wrote: Mon Jul 22, 2013 5:03 pm That's how it started with me and I am satisfied with the results, having gone through with it. But I'm only one person on this site and don't pretend to reply for anyone else here.
That's how it started out with me too. Fantasy first, then reality. After several years of fantasizing about castration, I had to be castrated for real. I couldn't shake the compelling over bearing castration desire. It wouldn't let go and it was all I could think about, so I removed my left testicle in 1997, Dr. Kimmel removed my right one, making me a eunuch in 2006. Now I struggle with my penectomy desire, which is persistent. I believe my penis will be gone someday soon. I've always believed that for some of us, fantasy leads to reality. It's not true of everyone, but it certainly was true in my case.
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janekane (imported)
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Re: Movement from Fetish to Reality
My best guess, so far, is that almost everything anyone ever does that contrasts with the "social contract" of one's social environment begins with a quiet sense of something that clamors for attention which is, in one or more ways, contrary to the person's social milieu.
The following is a terse, hence incomplete, hence somewhat inaccurate, description of my understanding of the relationship of fetish to castration. I done did that trip. I tell of my personal experience, doing so because I went through what may be usefully thought of as a form of horror, terror, and torment that it amazes me to find that I survived.
I wrote the following "poem" in 2004:
{begin "poem"}
ODE to Autism or ODE to the Authentic Essential Self
A clattering cacophony of sounds cascading into the pit,
Burying me deeply wherever I sit ...
Sounds that form daggers piercing me through.
What in the world am I do do?
When at society I sneak a peek
I meet with a stench, a putrid reek.
The children's unheard anguished cries
Protesting culture's dastardly lies.
How long must it take
Children's hearts burned at the stake...
Reduce the heat to a simmer
perhaps then we may see a glimmer.
Of the unmitigated truth
known only to intact youth -
The best that yet can be
is just what we may see.
The hellfire is near -
Why is it not clear, why not fear
The heat of the likes
in which everyone fries.
What shall it take
for humanity's sake?
How much uncooked gruel?
How much unrequited cruel?
You should have grown
before you could yearn?
You should have known
before you could learn?
Or so with sincerity they say
to this very timorous day.
Yet such consensus confabulations are never true.
How much yet remains for us to rue?
Would our lives have been better
Had we seen the way to unfetter
Our minds from the delusional fiction
That causes so much unbearable friction?
Second-guessing any newborn child
makes the gift of life defiled.
When will we have sufficiently striven
That we first fathom what we have been given?
A clattering cacophony of sounds cascading into the pit,
Burying us deeply wherever we sit -
Sounds that form daggers piercing us through.
What in the world are we to do?
(Author's note: "ODE" = Ordinary Differential Equation)
{end "poem"}
The "sounds that form daggers piercing us through" are the words used to coerce, through whatever terror is required, infants to internalize the imputed social contract (as, for example, in the work of Jean Jacques Rousseau) of the subculture into which a baby was injected and within which a baby is usually imprisoned, such social contracts are not actual contracts because no one has ever understood such contracts sufficiently to have truthfully consented to them.
The late French psychoanalyst, Jacques Lacan, developed a model of personal-social interaction wherein existence is internally experienced as though of three aspects, the imaginary, the symbolic, and the Real. Please carefully allow that "the Real" is not any form of "reality as defined by social consensus. Of "the Real," I made a poster in the very early 1980s, the background of which is a collection of red lines as though the outlines of bricks in a typical brick wall, and the overprinted text of which is, "Running into a Brick Wall does not Hurt any Less if You Pretend that The Wall Is Not There."
The field of scientific inquiry into the structure and function of the interrelated phenomena labeled, as in the work of Lacan, as the imaginary, the symbolic, and the Real, has been sometimes named "biological pattern recognition" or "biosemiotics." My work, as a licensed professional engineer and biosemiotician is of developing scientifically validated models of the relationships among the imaginary, the symbolic, the Real, and the structure and function of human society from the view of tangible public safety. I continue to find hints that the work I do is beyond where most of the theoretical biologists whose work I have encountered seem, to me to regard as the cutting edge of theoretical biology to be.
In my view, everything, including every concern, that a person does in any consciously willful way begins as imaginary, and what is imagined, as what is imagined is built, inescapably takes on the form of a so-called fetish during the time when the concern is forming, is not complete, and is experienced as being of some form of urgency. The fetish stage is an essential part of the pathway of resolving a concern that is too important to dismiss and not yet complete enough for the taking of deliberate, tangible action. The fetish "stage" is an essential part of the pathway of resolving an urgent concern the resolution of which is not yet accessible; the fetish stage is not of any mental disorder or defect, it is an essential aspect of practical problem solving.
To the extent that "reality" is a social construct separable from the Lacanian Real, the whole of reality is entirely fantasy.
The following is a terse, hence incomplete, hence somewhat inaccurate, description of my understanding of the relationship of fetish to castration. I done did that trip. I tell of my personal experience, doing so because I went through what may be usefully thought of as a form of horror, terror, and torment that it amazes me to find that I survived.
I wrote the following "poem" in 2004:
{begin "poem"}
ODE to Autism or ODE to the Authentic Essential Self
A clattering cacophony of sounds cascading into the pit,
Burying me deeply wherever I sit ...
Sounds that form daggers piercing me through.
What in the world am I do do?
When at society I sneak a peek
I meet with a stench, a putrid reek.
The children's unheard anguished cries
Protesting culture's dastardly lies.
How long must it take
Children's hearts burned at the stake...
Reduce the heat to a simmer
perhaps then we may see a glimmer.
Of the unmitigated truth
known only to intact youth -
The best that yet can be
is just what we may see.
The hellfire is near -
Why is it not clear, why not fear
The heat of the likes
in which everyone fries.
What shall it take
for humanity's sake?
How much uncooked gruel?
How much unrequited cruel?
You should have grown
before you could yearn?
You should have known
before you could learn?
Or so with sincerity they say
to this very timorous day.
Yet such consensus confabulations are never true.
How much yet remains for us to rue?
Would our lives have been better
Had we seen the way to unfetter
Our minds from the delusional fiction
That causes so much unbearable friction?
Second-guessing any newborn child
makes the gift of life defiled.
When will we have sufficiently striven
That we first fathom what we have been given?
A clattering cacophony of sounds cascading into the pit,
Burying us deeply wherever we sit -
Sounds that form daggers piercing us through.
What in the world are we to do?
(Author's note: "ODE" = Ordinary Differential Equation)
{end "poem"}
The "sounds that form daggers piercing us through" are the words used to coerce, through whatever terror is required, infants to internalize the imputed social contract (as, for example, in the work of Jean Jacques Rousseau) of the subculture into which a baby was injected and within which a baby is usually imprisoned, such social contracts are not actual contracts because no one has ever understood such contracts sufficiently to have truthfully consented to them.
The late French psychoanalyst, Jacques Lacan, developed a model of personal-social interaction wherein existence is internally experienced as though of three aspects, the imaginary, the symbolic, and the Real. Please carefully allow that "the Real" is not any form of "reality as defined by social consensus. Of "the Real," I made a poster in the very early 1980s, the background of which is a collection of red lines as though the outlines of bricks in a typical brick wall, and the overprinted text of which is, "Running into a Brick Wall does not Hurt any Less if You Pretend that The Wall Is Not There."
The field of scientific inquiry into the structure and function of the interrelated phenomena labeled, as in the work of Lacan, as the imaginary, the symbolic, and the Real, has been sometimes named "biological pattern recognition" or "biosemiotics." My work, as a licensed professional engineer and biosemiotician is of developing scientifically validated models of the relationships among the imaginary, the symbolic, the Real, and the structure and function of human society from the view of tangible public safety. I continue to find hints that the work I do is beyond where most of the theoretical biologists whose work I have encountered seem, to me to regard as the cutting edge of theoretical biology to be.
In my view, everything, including every concern, that a person does in any consciously willful way begins as imaginary, and what is imagined, as what is imagined is built, inescapably takes on the form of a so-called fetish during the time when the concern is forming, is not complete, and is experienced as being of some form of urgency. The fetish stage is an essential part of the pathway of resolving a concern that is too important to dismiss and not yet complete enough for the taking of deliberate, tangible action. The fetish "stage" is an essential part of the pathway of resolving an urgent concern the resolution of which is not yet accessible; the fetish stage is not of any mental disorder or defect, it is an essential aspect of practical problem solving.
To the extent that "reality" is a social construct separable from the Lacanian Real, the whole of reality is entirely fantasy.
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C&TL2745 (imported)
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Re: Movement from Fetish to Reality
My hubby's fantasy isn't about castration per se but has a fantasy of having women tie him up and cut his penis off while he watches helplessly, struggling futilely to free himself and stop them. He says he pictures them laughing at his plight, then cutting up the severed organ before his eyes.
Well, that's not going to happen.
However, my girlfriends and I (with his enthusiastic consent and collaboration) have tried to give him some of the excitement of fulfilling his fantasy by tying him up and beating his testicles and doing risky things to his penis, including banding it, strangling it, and giving it electric shocks. We did the latter twice about a year ago. The first time resulted in partial numbness, and the second time appears to have destroyed the nerves in his penis, because it is still numb.
So yes, I'd say fantasy can very well lead to taking action, and the more you dwell on your fantasy, the more apt you are to take action.
As for how satisfied he is, well, I can only go by what he says, which is that he has no regrets, though at times he's said he'd like to experience an orgasm again once in a while.
If you can't get the fantasy out of your mind, my guess is that it's just a matter of time before you take some action, if not to become a eunuch, then at least to do some significant irreversible damage to your genitals. Be careful what you wish for. You just might get it.
Sandi
Well, that's not going to happen.
However, my girlfriends and I (with his enthusiastic consent and collaboration) have tried to give him some of the excitement of fulfilling his fantasy by tying him up and beating his testicles and doing risky things to his penis, including banding it, strangling it, and giving it electric shocks. We did the latter twice about a year ago. The first time resulted in partial numbness, and the second time appears to have destroyed the nerves in his penis, because it is still numb.
So yes, I'd say fantasy can very well lead to taking action, and the more you dwell on your fantasy, the more apt you are to take action.
As for how satisfied he is, well, I can only go by what he says, which is that he has no regrets, though at times he's said he'd like to experience an orgasm again once in a while.
If you can't get the fantasy out of your mind, my guess is that it's just a matter of time before you take some action, if not to become a eunuch, then at least to do some significant irreversible damage to your genitals. Be careful what you wish for. You just might get it.
Sandi
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janekane (imported)
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Re: Movement from Fetish to Reality
C&TL2745 (imported) wrote: Tue Jul 23, 2013 6:58 am My hubby's fantasy isn't about castration per se but has a fantasy of having women tie him up and cut his penis off while he watches helplessly, struggling futilely to free himself and stop them. He says he pictures them laughing at his plight, then cutting up the severed organ before his eyes.
Well, that's not going to happen.
However, my girlfriends and I (with his enthusiastic consent and collaboration) have tried to give him some of the excitement of fulfilling his fantasy by tying him up and beating his testicles and doing risky things to his penis, including banding it, strangling it, and giving it electric shocks. We did the latter twice about a year ago. The first time resulted in partial numbness, and the second time appears to have destroyed the nerves in his penis, because it is still numb.
So yes, I'd say fantasy can very well lead to taking action, and the more you dwell on your fantasy, the more apt you are to take action.
As for how satisfied he is, well, I can only go by what he says, which is that he has no regrets, though at times he's said he'd like to experience an orgasm again once in a while.
If you can't get the fantasy out of your mind, my guess is that it's just a matter of time before you take some action, if not to become a eunuch, then at least to do some significant irreversible damage to your genitals. Be careful what you wish for. You just might get it.
Sandi
Perhaps far more often than otherwise, acting on a fetish or fantasy may prevent or minimize "irreversible damage." When acting on a fantasy or fetish prevents or minimizes damage, the fantasy/fetish tends to be regarded as a normal and optimal aspect of being alive; only when notable damage happens are fantasies and fetishes deemed improper.
The predicament, as I see it, is that there is simply no way to accurately (without error or possible error) know in advance which fantasies or fetishes, when acted on, will result in something beautiful and magnificent happening or which, when acted on, will result in something terrible and tragic happening.
The only way I have found to sort that enigma out with any hint if practical worth is through the way of what has been called, "system dynamics," whether done with computer-based modeling programs such as Vensim and Stella, or done with ordinary human intuition. To use the way of system dynamics requires concocting a variety of scenarios (imagined futures that are, one can hope, intelligibly plausible) and testing them.
I have a simple name for the phenomenon of imagining of scenarios and testing them, that name is, "life."
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considering (imported)
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Re: Movement from Fetish to Reality
One of two things I think; You haven't thought of it and then...suddenly it's just the germ of an idea for whatever reason. Either you discard it or follow through. The other group are those men who have castration forced on them by medical exigencies. Although technically they are Eunuchs, that's their physical state of being but I would question whether they are comforrable and accepting in their minds. For many of us, myself for example, my goal was to be a Eunuch with no ancillary reasons, no feminization, no "thrill seeker", no real fetish just the surety that I was better as a Eunuch. I had mine removed in a hospital after a long session of pyschiatric counselling just to assure my surgeon that in doing this he was providing a form of medical treatment for a psychological need. I've never looked back, never regretted but I do sometimes think, when reading the comments of others, that they're too young, too unformed in their ideas....but we each do what we feel is correct.
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Hash (imported)
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Re: Movement from Fetish to Reality
Hi Everyone,
Went to see my urologist this morning and she examined my reroute and stated that it looks wonderful and I concurred that it feels wonderful. She asked some simple questions about how it feels using it and if everything is working. I told her she did a great job and I have no problems. Well, then she started to turn to leave and I said I still struggle with having a penis. I handed her a letter I wrote and she read it. The letter is as follows: My Plea
I, ______________________ , being transgender, request the removal of my visible penis (partial penectomy). I have a persistent discomfort with my sex and detest my penis. My visible penis no longer functions as a sexual organ or as an instrument to void with. My penis has been traumatized and injured to the point where I have residual pain. As a useless appendage no longer having a purpose or function, removing my visible penis is a logical step. The psychologists who examined me believed that the removal of my penis would bring me emotional and gender harmony, without the necessity of complete transitioning into the female form.
Having received extensive counseling concerning this surgical procedure, I understand that a partial penectomy will make me incapable of having sexual intercourse, however, I am already incapable of intercourse due to castration and trauma. Not having a visible penis would bring great relief to my body & mind, transforming me into the person I should be, what a joyous occasion it will be to look down and be genderless.
I understand fully the ramifications of such a request and accept full responsibility for my decision. I firmly state that I will in no way take any legal action against said mentioned urologist/surgeon who performs this partial penectomy surgery since it is at my request. At my current age, having none of the normal impediments that a younger transgendered person would have if requesting this surgery, I therefore submit my plea.
________________________
Signature
After reading it she looked at me with sad compassionate eyes and said, "I know you long to have this done, and I can certainly do the surgery, but I'm not sure I'm comfortable at this point in my career. There are many more qualified surgeons out there who do these type of surgeries. I think you should contact one of them." I countered by saying, "I know there are other surgeons out there, but I feel comfortable with you. I feel confident with you." She said, "I'm not sure at this time that I can do it, it's not something I've done and I'm afraid of altering your physiology and of the complications with this type of surgery. At this time I'm not ready to do this, I am sorry." I suggested seeing a psychologist, but she said that wouldn't change her mind. I said thank you and expected her to hand the letter back, but she kept it and I left.
There were some additional things said, but none that were important or that I can remember. I did expect this kind of reaction on her part, it's normal to reject someone requesting a penectomy, but she never said, "No, I'll never do this, I won't do a penectomy." She said, "I'm not sure at this time I'm comfortable at this point in my career and I'm not sure at this time that I can do it." This leaves a window of hope and she kept the letter, didn't even ask me if I wanted it back, she laid it on my folder. So all in all, I was rejected again, but I planted a seed. Maybe someday she'll think differently about doing this surgery, if not on me, then on someone else. I have an appointment next year and I'd like to walk in without a penis, wonder what she'll say? One can dream. P.S. I'm hoping she'll change her mind and call me back saying she'll do it.
Went to see my urologist this morning and she examined my reroute and stated that it looks wonderful and I concurred that it feels wonderful. She asked some simple questions about how it feels using it and if everything is working. I told her she did a great job and I have no problems. Well, then she started to turn to leave and I said I still struggle with having a penis. I handed her a letter I wrote and she read it. The letter is as follows: My Plea
I, ______________________ , being transgender, request the removal of my visible penis (partial penectomy). I have a persistent discomfort with my sex and detest my penis. My visible penis no longer functions as a sexual organ or as an instrument to void with. My penis has been traumatized and injured to the point where I have residual pain. As a useless appendage no longer having a purpose or function, removing my visible penis is a logical step. The psychologists who examined me believed that the removal of my penis would bring me emotional and gender harmony, without the necessity of complete transitioning into the female form.
Having received extensive counseling concerning this surgical procedure, I understand that a partial penectomy will make me incapable of having sexual intercourse, however, I am already incapable of intercourse due to castration and trauma. Not having a visible penis would bring great relief to my body & mind, transforming me into the person I should be, what a joyous occasion it will be to look down and be genderless.
I understand fully the ramifications of such a request and accept full responsibility for my decision. I firmly state that I will in no way take any legal action against said mentioned urologist/surgeon who performs this partial penectomy surgery since it is at my request. At my current age, having none of the normal impediments that a younger transgendered person would have if requesting this surgery, I therefore submit my plea.
________________________
Signature
After reading it she looked at me with sad compassionate eyes and said, "I know you long to have this done, and I can certainly do the surgery, but I'm not sure I'm comfortable at this point in my career. There are many more qualified surgeons out there who do these type of surgeries. I think you should contact one of them." I countered by saying, "I know there are other surgeons out there, but I feel comfortable with you. I feel confident with you." She said, "I'm not sure at this time that I can do it, it's not something I've done and I'm afraid of altering your physiology and of the complications with this type of surgery. At this time I'm not ready to do this, I am sorry." I suggested seeing a psychologist, but she said that wouldn't change her mind. I said thank you and expected her to hand the letter back, but she kept it and I left.
There were some additional things said, but none that were important or that I can remember. I did expect this kind of reaction on her part, it's normal to reject someone requesting a penectomy, but she never said, "No, I'll never do this, I won't do a penectomy." She said, "I'm not sure at this time I'm comfortable at this point in my career and I'm not sure at this time that I can do it." This leaves a window of hope and she kept the letter, didn't even ask me if I wanted it back, she laid it on my folder. So all in all, I was rejected again, but I planted a seed. Maybe someday she'll think differently about doing this surgery, if not on me, then on someone else. I have an appointment next year and I'd like to walk in without a penis, wonder what she'll say? One can dream. P.S. I'm hoping she'll change her mind and call me back saying she'll do it.
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butterflyjack (imported)
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Re: Movement from Fetish to Reality
Very nicely done, Hash..eloquent and concise...I love your doctor..She seems so compassionate..Maybe next time? Smooches Jackie
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janekane (imported)
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Re: Movement from Fetish to Reality
When a physician has informed me of being uncomfortable doing what I regard as medically necessary and appropriate, rather than wait and, perhaps, suffer while waiting, and rather than attempting to convince a physician to do what I deem to be medically indicated, I have consistently found it better for me to find someone with whom I may be less comfortable who is more comfortable with me and my understanding of my actual needs.
A few months before I joined the Archive, the testicular prostheses that were installed shortly after my orchiectomy had activated a foreign body reaction. Physicians that I deemed properly competent to do what was medically indicated informed me that they were not comfortable with doing the prostheses removal without waiting for several months to be sure that I would not change my mind. So, I contacted the university hospital which installed the prostheses, and got an appointment with a urologist there about a week after I called. That university and its hospital are in another state; I went there, was properly examined, and was assigned the very next opening in the surgical theater where what I needed was done.
One urologist was not comfortable acting promptly, another urologist, hundreds of miles farther away, was not comfortable delaying the prostheses removal.
I was more comfortable getting the prostheses promptly removed by a urologist with whom I was less comfortable than I was comfortable waiting for a urologist with whom I was more comfortable; I suppose that might have been the simple consequence of the left prosthesis having attached itself to something in my left inguinal canal in a way that was physically very uncomfortable.
For me, sometimes, there are trade-offs, and I need to balance them to minimize the discomfort of my life and to maximize the comfort of my life.
In my work in bioengineering, that balancing trade-off process may be called, "multiple parameter optimization."
I have no advice to offer; however, I am profoundly glad that I did not wait longer than I did to get my bilateral orchiectomy and colectomy in 1986, and I am glad that I did not wait longer than I did to get my "bilateral prosthectomy" in 2011.
Comfort may be a matter of taste.
What was the Latin saying? "De gustibus non est disputandum"? In English, "There is no disputing the taste."
A few months before I joined the Archive, the testicular prostheses that were installed shortly after my orchiectomy had activated a foreign body reaction. Physicians that I deemed properly competent to do what was medically indicated informed me that they were not comfortable with doing the prostheses removal without waiting for several months to be sure that I would not change my mind. So, I contacted the university hospital which installed the prostheses, and got an appointment with a urologist there about a week after I called. That university and its hospital are in another state; I went there, was properly examined, and was assigned the very next opening in the surgical theater where what I needed was done.
One urologist was not comfortable acting promptly, another urologist, hundreds of miles farther away, was not comfortable delaying the prostheses removal.
I was more comfortable getting the prostheses promptly removed by a urologist with whom I was less comfortable than I was comfortable waiting for a urologist with whom I was more comfortable; I suppose that might have been the simple consequence of the left prosthesis having attached itself to something in my left inguinal canal in a way that was physically very uncomfortable.
For me, sometimes, there are trade-offs, and I need to balance them to minimize the discomfort of my life and to maximize the comfort of my life.
In my work in bioengineering, that balancing trade-off process may be called, "multiple parameter optimization."
I have no advice to offer; however, I am profoundly glad that I did not wait longer than I did to get my bilateral orchiectomy and colectomy in 1986, and I am glad that I did not wait longer than I did to get my "bilateral prosthectomy" in 2011.
Comfort may be a matter of taste.
What was the Latin saying? "De gustibus non est disputandum"? In English, "There is no disputing the taste."