Trying to tell it like it is

[Kortpeel (imported)]

Have we in the west become too politically correct? Too afraid to tell it like it is? Are we too sensitive to other peoples’ sensitivities?

Let’s try telling it like it is:

All of the world’s religions are mere superstitions based on myths and legends with no testable supporting evidence whatsoever. Churches and clerics of all faiths have grown rich and strong through exploiting these superstitions.

Most people are too stupid or lazy to understand politics. That is why the ‘sound bite’ has become so important at election time in democracies. It aims to catch people’s votes by appealing to their prejudices. You never hear of a politician running for office trying to appeal to people’s intellects. The successful candidate achieves power by appealing to the lowest common denominator in the electorate.

Outside of the democracies the majority of the people are ignorant uneducated peasants who do not even realise they are being exploited and cheated by a ruthless political elite. That is why you still have tyrannies and dictatorships.

Zimbabwe is a classic example. You hear politicians solemnly pronounce, as if it were great wisdom and an incontestable truth, that “Zimbabwe’s problems are an internal matter for Zimbabweans to resolve.” Yet half of the idiots there still voted for Robert Mugabe in their elections last March. Mugabe should have been taken out years ago.

Culture is another area of sensitivity. I believe that the general culture of the Western world, for all its imperfections, is superior to any other culture. It is summed up in one phrase: liberty and freedom. Gee! We even let women drive around in cars and walk about in public with their faces uncovered. The snag is that Western style freedom depends on its citizens being responsible and running their lives sensibly. The vast majority of them do.

However, many people in this world are scared of freedom and cannot live up to the responsibility it requires. That’s why our beautiful dream of bringing liberty and freedom to Iraq and Afghanistan has failed. The culture there is just not up to it.

Perhaps America’s greatest gift to the world is freedom of speech. I have just exercised it.

Kortpeel

[Arab Nights (imported)]

Wow. How does one address a post that covers so many deep seated feelings? Let me take a couple of small shots.

First religion. My thoughts on looking at images from Hubble are - I do not understand. All the fundamentals on life and the universe are just too much for me to comprehend. I can memorize, but I cannot understand. Does that mean we should not try? Religion is just the attempt of a flawed (both individually and in aggregate) species to understand the meaning and morality of something much larger than themselves. Does it hurt to try?

My feelings on the human race are: A) 10% do 90% of the work, 80% to some degree or another are just here and 10% do 90% of the crime. B) 25% are born liberal and will never change, 35% are born conservative and might pretend to be thoughtful but never are and the rest are somewhere in between and will be swayed by reality.

I would agree about the gift of democracies. As flawed as we are, it is the best system to allow progress because of the the abilities of the 10% who do 90% of the work. I think you see the world slowly changing so many more countries are allowing their people of both sexes to develop their abilities. Hopefully the time will not be that far off that you and I will be old farts crying in our beer and remembering when it was a white man's world.

Politics often to me seems like the flawed selected the flawed to lead. It is a necessary mechanical process in life. Yet somehow sometimes the results can be quite remarkable. Here in the states we have had our share of presidents that cover the whole spectrum. You might well point to all the well documented public stupidity (which is not limited to Americans), but despite that and point B) above, the human race can produce some quite remarkable political leaders. With my cultural baggage, Lincoln, Kennedy, Reagan and Obama are examples that come to mind for me of leaders that transcend the liberal-inbetween-conservative distribution and the general ignorance of their people.

Kortpeel, do you believe in the geologic timescale? I am kind of a history buff. Here are some stories of our beloved white race. The Middle Ages were tragi-comic. You end up with stories like the peasants protesting by storming city hall and throwing the functionaries out of the upper story windows. Or the good Christians on their way fight the heathen Moslems getting snowed in for the winter in an alpine valley. To amuse themselves, they would haul people out of their homes, strip them naked and nail them to their front door. Go back even further. There is a book out on the Sex Lives of the Romans. One emporer was iritated by a lady and had her put under house arrest and her household slaves castrated. So, if you haven't been nailed naked to your front door and George W. did not put Hilary under house arrest and have her household slaves castrated, then you have to agree that on the geologic time scale the human race is, very slowly, racing towards a better, more educated and more moral state.

There. I said it.

[augman7518 (imported)]

Kortpeal did a gbood job of expressing my feelings on almost all subjects.This is something I can say."I wish I had said that".My father had a saying about when one was trying to convince people.Quote {one cannot make a silk purse out of a sows ear}

[A-1 (imported)]

Well, it has been awhile since I took the other side of this argument, it was just too improtant go get Barak Obama elected to balance things out before America went to hell in the proverbial handbasket... you could say that the whole country was becoming :shakemitk ...are you ready for this?

...A HANDBASKETCASE



Anyway, here goes.

All of the world’

s religions are mere superstitions based on myths and legends with no testable supporting evidence whatsoever. Churches and clerics of all faiths have grown rich and strong through exploiting these superstitions.

The so-called 'myths' are what you believe. Do you beleive in George Washington? Well, you have never seen him, have you? How do you know that he actually lived and walked the Earth? Same thing for ANY historical figure. You cannot prove existance with a book. Even the Bible. So, you have to believe what you are told, to an extent, even if you are a skepic.

I believe that I will walk into the kitchen and find me something to drink...



...there, now, that's better.



Now, how do you actually know that I went into the kitchen? Well, you HAVE to take my word for it...

Religions and religious institutions are GOOD for you. They provide you with a network of friends who share your committments and beliefs. They provide hope for the hopeless and meaning to an otherwise pointless existance. Kortpeel, my friend, it IS my opinion that you have been used by religion. You should find a religion that you can use to feed your soul because the human experience IS more than the sum of its parts. Do not associate with one that will tear you down or tear you apart. You

are too good of a person for that from what I have seen.

My feelings on the human race are: A) 10% do 90% of the work, 80% to some degree or another are just here and 10% do 90% of the crime. B) 25% are born liberal and will never change, 35% are born conservative and might pretend to be thoughtful but never are and the rest

are somewhere in between and will be swayed by reality.

Kort, you leave so much wiggle room in your statistics why bother to put a number on it at all? The problem goes when you consider that 90% of all of the people do NOT do all of the work, you must consider where YOU fall. Managers consider it work getting others to work. But everybody knows that managers manage, that is, they DO NOTHING but cause conflict or they are used as tools to cause conflict.

Now, don't confuse this.

A great man once told me that managers always do things right but that LEADERS always do the RIGHT THING.

Food for thought.

Do your believe in the goodness of humanity or do you believe that mankind is inherently evil? Soul search for this one, unless soul-searching is just a legend that the superstitious use to control themselves and everyone else.

Conservatism IS a human condition and ther is nothing wrong with being conservative. However, the problem comes when you EXPECT that everyone else should be so. Regarding Liberalism, the same thing goes. People are people. Know the group that you are dea

ling with. If you tweak them, expect to get tweaked back.

I would agree about the gift of democracies. As flawed as we are, it is the best system to allow progress because of the the abilities of the 10% who do 90% of the work. I think you see the world slowly changing so many more countries are allowing their people of both sexes to develop their abilities. Hopefully the time will not be that far off that you and I will be old farts crying in ou

r beer and remembering when it was a white man's world.

As the world become more and more populated and humanity becomes more and more removed from an animal-like existance socials systems become increasingly complex and hard to define. All abilities follow a bell-shaped curve, however, no set of abilities is constant across the board. We must learn that intellect is a bit like pornography. We recognize it when we see it but when we attempt to define it the definition will never stick...

Humanity, being in possession of a brain and intellect that is unique to the set of living things, has to learn to be in awe of this marvelous gift, regardless of its source. After all, if you believe that GOD thought enough of us to send his son as a sacrifice for US, then the LEAST that we can do is to respect EVERY human being on the face of the Earth as much as God does and see to it that no harm comes to ANY of us. IF and WHEN we start taking HUMANITY for granted WE will go the way of the DINOSAURS, regardless of our system of government.

Most people are too stupid or lazy to understand politics. That is why the ‘sound bite’ has become so important at election time in democracies. It aims to catch people’s votes by appealing to their prejudices. You never hear of a politician running for office trying to appeal to people’s intellects. The successful candidate achieves power by appealing to the lowest common denominator in the electorate.

Outside of the democracies the majority of the people are ignorant uneducated peasants who do not even realise they are being exploited and cheated by a ruthless political elite. That is why you still have tyrannies and dictatorships.

These are connected. If you think that humanity is capable of self-government then you can RESPECT the ability of people to not only choose leaders and a government that is right for them but to pick what is right for humanity.

If, however, you choose to do otherwise, then you become a Mugbe or a religious zealot doing, 'the will of GOD'. YOU set yourself us as GOD on Earth to take care of this poor, ignorant mass of humanity. AND, if you hold that a significant portion of humanity is not capable of self-rule or deserving of the rights of the 'rest of us' (that are GODS) then you are not only going to end up with a corrupt ruler, but you are going to trample the hell out of human rights and end up killing those whom you consider inferior.

Culture is another area of sensitivity. I believe that the general culture of the Western world, for all its imperfections, is superior to any other culture. It is summed up in one phrase: liberty and freedom. Gee! We even let women drive around in cars and walk about in public with their faces uncovered. The snag is that Western style freedom depends on its citizens being responsible and running their lives sensibly. The vast majority of them do.

However, many people in this world are scared of freedom and cannot live up to the responsibility it requires. That’s why our beautiful dream of bringing liberty and freedom to Iraq and Afghanistan has failed. The culture there is just not up to it.

...as I have said, MANKIND IS CAPABLE of self-rule. HOwever, different groups MUST figure it out for themselves.

The true test of this in IRAQ is told by the fate of the man who threw the shoe at George W. Bush. The free world recognizes this as the act of a FREE MAN frustrated at injustices done to people. He was not trying to kill anybody.

However, the ones who have no respect for humanity and are in positions of power sees it as a direct threat to their power if they believe themselves to be caretakers of the innocent, incapable and, how did you put it, the LAZY 90% who do nothing...

One must ask one's self,

HOW DO I SEE IT?

...then you "kind of" have an idea where you see yourself fitting in with HUMANITY...

[transward (imported)]

All of the world’

s religions are mere superstitions based on myths and legends with no testable supporting evidence whatsoever. Churches and clerics of all faiths have grown rich and strong through exploiting these superstitions.

I am reminded of Vonnegut's line in Cat's Cradle:

"Anyone who doesn't understand how a totally useful religion can be based on complete lies doesn't understand religion and probably won't understand this bood either." (this is approximate; I don't have the book in front of me.)

Transward

[A-1 (imported)]

All of the world’

s religions are mere superstitions based on myths and legends with no testable supporting evidence whatsoever. Churches and clerics of all faiths have grown rich and

strong through exploiting these superstitions.

I am reminded of Vonnegut's line in Cat's Cradle:

"Anyone who doesn't understand how a totally useful religion can be based on complete lies doesn't understand religion and probably won't understand this bood either." (this is approx

imate; I don't have the book in front of me.)

Transward

Of course, this is true.

But it is about FAITH... and tradition... and ancestral respect... You do not have to get carried away with it, it IS, after all, spiritual.

...and remember, good spirits do not necessarily have to come from a bottle...