Actually I think PunkyPink does have a extremely valid point and that in fact it was the title of the thread she was angry about that was the much more offensive and should have never been allowed in the first place. Sometimes we do forget that we are a bunch of no-good middle aged men (eunuch or no) that have become very set to a certain type of attitude pertaining to yesteryear. But in fact we are very offensive to people of other groups particularly of the younger age group and among women. The problem with Eunuch Archive as I see it is that it does limit itself to older white men mainly in the United States when in fact it could be SO-O-O much more than that. And it's this old country club attitude that does put people off that would otherwise normally join the EA. So whereas she didn't voice it right, you do have to nevertheless understand how exhasperated she was. Where she was one, there were certainly probably many, many others that reacted in the same manner without making any replies. They simply left is all even if they were eunuchs themselves. Myself, being here long enough and so used to it simply rolled my eyes and ignored the thread as I had become accustomed to doing a lot. I didn't even know what this was about until I decided to search her last posts since I had ignored that thread that she and no doubt many, many others were offended at. I know in the past me and her may have had our disagreements but as far as the etiquette issue is concerned I think somebody at the top blew it (no doubt somebody with the caloused attitude of an older male. Just saying.

I can summarize things in two words.. Tread Lightly.

Yes, tread lightly. Another thing, READ what you are going to submit before you submit it. You might find you want to change the comments so they are less "inflamatory" but more constructive. Quite a few have said, "In my opinion (or case or thinking), I feel this way or that way. I, personally, did not know that the word "tranny" was anathema so I guess I am glad I did not comment on the title.:-\

Riverwind (imported) wrote: Mon Apr 08, 2013 5:39 am Second as for being quick to ban someone, when a person has been here a while and it ban it is because all other means to correct the problem has failed. In the case of Punky we talked to her several times about going off on people because she felt offended, this was not the first time, or second. There comes a time when we as moderators must weigh the value of the member to all the other members of this site. Being rude to a moderator will get you ban, its like when a cop pulls you over and asks you if you know why he pulled you over and your response is 'because your an asshole?' Yes you will get a ticket and fix your tail light.

Remember not everything you see on this site is everything going on and when several of us are trying to hit the ban button and loose out because another beat us to it, its most likely for the right reason.

River

I understand the difficulties of moderation myself, but when I sit back here as a user I can politely say that I've seen many threads get closed down before I've had a chance to see a single post in them.

I'm not sure if you're able to do it in this system, but where I perform the same duties, I do not outright ban someone unless they have done something so horrible that they're not going to be allowed back in ever. On MBM the theft of materials and reposting them without permission is the big one, and I can only recall banning someone over that on one occasion.

I tend to suspend accounts and send the user messages telling them what they have to do to return their account to good standing. I'm not sure if you have a system in place here to simply suspend rather than ban. I've found suspension with a note to the user generally gets their attention. For 'infractions' like Punky Pink had I usually suspend them for a day, then lift it and send them a note saying why it was in place and that they are welcome back if they cease doing whatever it was that got the account suspended. I give 'em a chance that way, and losing access for a day is usually a good enough attention getter to get them to stop the behavior without alienating them completely.

--LT

That "somebody at the top" had had enough of her attitude, and the raft of complaints in my inbox about her posts.

All that was required was a simple post of "Can you change that title, please? I find it offensive." And it would have been done with a "sorry about that" tagged on.

BUT NO, someone has to come in screaming and throwing insults about it...oh well...

And for the record, it takes a LOT for me to get angry at someone, much less ban them from the forums. A LOT. And believe me, I'd had a LOT.

Losethem (imported) wrote: Mon Apr 08, 2013 11:15 am I understand the difficulties of moderation myself, but when I sit back here as a user I can politely say that I've seen many threads get closed down before I've had a chance to see a single post in them.

I'm not sure if you're able to do it in this system, but where I perform the same duties, I do not outright ban someone unless they have done something so horrible that they're not going to be allowed back in ever. On MBM the theft of materials and reposting them without permission is the big one, and I can only recall banning someone over that on one occasion.

I tend to suspend accounts and send the user messages telling them what they have to do to return their account to good standing. I'm not sure if you have a system in place here to simply suspend rather than ban. I've found suspension with a note to the user generally gets their attention. For 'infractions' like Punky Pink had I usually suspend them for a day, then lift it and send them a note saying why it was in place and that they are welcome back if they cease doing whatever it was that got the account suspended. I give 'em a chance that way, and losing access for a day is usually a good enough attention getter to get them to stop the behavior without alienating them completely.

--LT

Yes, we do have such a system - it functions as a temporary ban - 1 day to permanent, and yes I have used it on occasion. Normally I don't even like to do that. Usually a PM is sufficient about 98% of the time, a few get an attention getter. Very few get banned. In the past 10 years or so, we've had about 60,000 people registered here - out of that bunch about 25-30 have been permanently banned - and even some of those I will reinstate after a few discussion points are exchanged. I only use the rolled up newspaper with Moi; he's special.

I completely concur with Paolo's action in banning Punky. Every time she comes around, she expresses as a very angry girl, who takes umbrage at just about everything, and then stomps off and pouts for a while, then comes back looking for more. She needs to tone it down - go ahead and be angry if one desires, but don't take it to the warpath. Education has done more to maintain peace than screaming and yelling.

Probably shouldn't add my two cents to this but I will since this conversation bugs me.

I don't know of any website so accepting of folks nor staff so tolorant and users that come to the Archive would do themselves a favor to model that tolorance (most do).

Just to make it clear, if I had been the first one across Pinkys post, I would have popped her right there and then, no if's and's or but's.

People can talk about staff being heavy handed but I know these folks and I've never seen one do something without just cause. The only folks that have ever had to be afraid of staff are the ones that won't listen when warned or go out of thier way to test.

To illustrate and I do not suggest you try this: Go wave a gun around in front of a cop and see how far you get.

Even if you are in the right, he will want the first and last words and you had better let him have them. Saying that you know better, he is in the wrong and should therefore fuck off is probably not going to earn you grace. o

More on tolorance.

Sure, folks use words that others find offensive and we all hope those words will fall from use. There are words that folks use here on the Archive every day I find offensive but I choose not to scream about folks using them because first off, I have better things to do.

Yes, there are terms that if folks used would make me take action and that 'list' of terms will continue to grow, or maybe shrink. This list isn't written down, and I"m not going into what is on it.

The Archive:

The Archive is a living breathing entity that is larger then the sum of it's whole. It is more than anyone can tell and it isn't going away (though there are folks that wish it would and some of those folks are still welcome to post on the forums <- tolorance). People will come to The Archive when they need it, they will leave when they don't and there isn't much to stop that.

If you get a chance, organize or attend a MoM. Meeting folks from the Archive does wonders

Talula is right.. There is never a more accepting group that the EA.. People who understand and accept you as a Eunuch. The world and Family, just do not understand and are not accepting. We are a different group.. Pretty unique. And pretty cool.. Yep, as a Eunuch, you have to live with dry skin, paper thin finger nails and more.. But I would not trade my identity as a Eunuch for anything else.. I am accepting of me and I like it.

I will readily ban people from my site for rude behavior toward me, one of my moderators, or toward another member. I've banned a bunch. My listed reason for the ban is, "For being a jerk."

No owner of a free site owes anything to any of his members. Most choose to play fair, but "Free Speech" doesn't apply. Punky was being a jerk and got what every jerk deserves, the boot.

I might issue a caution before banning, but once I ban someone, they are gone for good.

The chip on Punky's shoulder is so big, I would be surprised that she could walk a straight line. It must continually put her off balance.

talula wrote: Mon Apr 08, 2013 4:09 pm Probably shouldn't add my two cents to this but I will since this conversation bugs me.

I'm sorry Talula, I didn't start this thread to criticize the EA, the Mods, or any of the members. Rather it was just to raise awareness about some of the things we do that hurt other. All I want is for people to be aware of the issue and to raise their game a bit. In that regard I think this thread has done its job.