censorship

[bobweekend (imported)]

Please explain why my post asking for donations to help one of our family was deleted?

Rick has done a great deal for us and at a great risk to himself and his family.

Why is asking the community for help being censored?

Thanks,

Bob

[Losethem (imported)]

Yes mods, please do tell us. Grrr...

Please explain why my post asking for donations to help one of our family was deleted?

Rick has done a great deal for us and at a great risk to himself and his family.

Why is asking the community for help being censored?

Thanks,

Bob

[kristoff]

When I deleted the thread, I posted a reason. We do not permit advertisements (i.e., someone's shop) regardless of the benefit. Same with solicitations for any kind of financial support. We permit such posts only for support and maintenance of this site, i.e., if we need new software, etc. Beyond that, it don't go. That has been our long standing position here, and until such time as Eunuch Central decides to change it, that is what I will abide by. It is also our policy not to endorse, support or refer cutters unless medically qualified.

So I guess that answers the question

[Paolo]

In response to the technical issue, as someone wrote me up to clarify...which I will gladly do.

When a thread or post is removed in VBulletin, only the Admins / Mods can see it unless the Admin who deleted it used the "PHYSICALLY REMOVE" button. Only then is it truly gone. Krister and I, and Talula, etc., can still see the deleted thread in question with the explanation of removal. But a non-Admin user or guest would not.

I think this where the confusion comes in. I am sure that not all of the Admins realize this, unless you dig DEEP into the VB options and manual and read read read.

I only knew this from being such an old VBulletin jockey.

My advice - next time, edit the thread and put a red note in the original post and then close it.

[bobweekend (imported)]

Rick and family does need our help. email me for the link to where you can donate to the cause.

[Losethem (imported)]

Quite frankly I'm disillusioned with the staff of this website and it's the reason that I did not accept a position as chat room op when it was offered.

I usually keep my mouth shut but on this one I feel compelled to speak out. You keep spouting off that the only way to go is with Kimmel. Kimmel is a hack, does a hatchet job compared to the person we are trying to help. The person in question is medically qualified and had training from hospital staff to do so - he's a physicians assistant.

I didn't use Kimmel because I have read numerous accounts about how his office is filthy, instruments are rusty and overall a non-sterile environment. The photos I saw of Riverwind and TheFraj looked like their midsections went 18 rounds with Mike Tyson. The good doctor has lousy follow-up. This is in direct contrast to what happened with me and the person in question. By getting this done where I did, I had a sterile environment, lack of swelling (I only swelled to the point it looked like I had something inside the scrotum, much better than what I've seen out of the office in Philly), EXCELLENT aftercare and so on.

So this person that is medically qualified cannot receive help from the community because some folks that sit up in their ivory tower don't think he deserves it for getting caught - know why he's in jail? Not for lack of sterile environment, knowledge, or anything else. No some jerk turned him in for spite (and not someone like us). He is just as qualified if not more so than that quack in Philly, his only crime is he doesn't have MD after his name. He was one set of lessons short of that.

Fine call him a cutter, but the jerk in NC that turned him in did it for spite, pulled me and a whole bunch of other people into the investigation and now that we're asking for a small amount of assistance and/or compassion we get censored because it doesn't meet your arbitrary standard. What if I need assistance? Can I not ask for it? Or since I'm involved with this guy you'll censor that too? The cops here have threatened to charge me with stuff related to it. Thanks alot.

Go screw yourselves.

I'm sure this user that has been on here since the beginning of the archive will get banned now just for having the nerve to disagree with the ops. Go ahead, ban me and prove my point. Dissent from your opinion isn't allowed, at least that's what it looks like to me.

Bye.

[JesusA (imported)]

Rick and family does need our help. email me for the link to where you can donate to the cause.

A very real problem with any web site is deciding exactly where the boundaries of expression ought to be, and then enforcing them uniformly. Since the Eunuch Archive is entirely dependant on servers donated and maintained by BME, an essential decision is that there be absolutely NO direct advertising of anything other than BME services.

Rick Sciara is certainly important for many who are here – even though he is a “cutter”, he is a well-trained one and is respected by several who have posted here. He, together with two of his associates, have been charged with a crime (castration WITHOUT malice) by the state of North Carolina. Many here would dispute both whether or not his actions constituted a crime and whether or not he should be charged at all for his actions on those who sought his services. See the thread Three arrested in NC for Castrations (http://www.eunuch.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=8736) for the original reporting on this case.

There have been previous posts here about the status of his case. A request for postcards in support of him was posted. This post telling readers here where to go in order to provide financial (and moral) support for what promises to be a very nasty court case is perfectly in order.

Dircect advertising of a site for making donations steps just over the line. It might be supported for a good cause, but the precedent is one that Kristoff decided was just a bit too far. Pulling it is not a statement about Rick Sciara, but about advertising on the Archive.

As an academic (medical anthropologist), I have written directly to Michael Bonfoey, the D.A. in Waynesville, North Carolina in support of Rick Sciara; as a moderator on the Eunuch Archive I would vote against the original post directly asking for financial contributions.

Sometimes it’s a tough call….

[Uncle Flo (imported)]

As an individual I have posted comments on other sites decrying the prosecutions in North Carolina. I have no doubt in my own mind that it is an exercise in power by the authorities there. The suspects are getting a raw deal that can only be remedied in court. the case seems to be based not on the lack of medical proficiency but on the unusual statute in NC specificialy banning castration. There is also some confusion over the difference between with malice and without malice as they are different provisions of the law. I strongly suspect that the current neo-christian conservative political climate has more to do with this prosecution than does any respect for a law that hasn't been actively enforced for decades. An email to bobweekend will result in instructions regarding the matter of donations. --FLO--

[BossTamsin (imported)]

On a personal level I feel for, and sympathize with Rick and his family, and sincerely hope that they and anyone else involved with this case manage to escape what is a case of legal persecution. I would donate to help them if I could afford to, and wish them nothing but the best. I have no ill will towards them, or anyone else who does what they do.

However, that aside, the archive absolutely has to maintain an official stance against supporting cutters. This has nothing to do with personal feelings or any percieved animosity towards them. This has everything to do with the legal issues that surround them. Neither myself, nor any of those on the staff, have the legal or financial resources to withstand the legal difficulties surrounding cutters.

I agree that the law in this issue may not be just, and the lack of licensed, capable medical professionals who are willing to perform voluntary castrations is absolutely abhorrent. However, if we officially support and encourage the commission of illegal acts, we risk having the site shut down, the personal property of myself and others siezed, or even facing lawsuits or charges ourselves.

And so, while I do personally encourage members to contact bobweekend to see if they can help, officially this site has to remain against cutters.

If you think this is an arbitrary judgement from people sitting "up in their ivory tower", and cannot see our reasons behind the decision, then I would be most happy to allow the endorsement of cutters here. Provided of course that people are willing to put their money where their mouth is and sign agreements to provide the Eunuch Archive with a legal defence fund, as well as paying any legal bills related to the determination of our level of risk for such an act, plus the costs of any legal issues which arise as a result. Once I know that neither the EA nor any staff (including myself) are at risk of losing everything, I will be most happy to allow endorsement, critiquing, support, or referrals to cutters.

[Losethem (imported)]

What all of you are failing to see is that there is a MARKED difference between asking for assistance to help these folks now that they have been charged with a crime than there is for letting them advertise their services out in the open. This wasn't an advertisement for services, this was a plea to help the entire family that lived in that household. The police didn't just arrest the so-called cutter, they arrested and charged equally everyone living in the household.

No, I feel quite justified in my anger at the arbitrary censorship of the message. As I've said previously, I usually keep my mouth shut at the unbelievable stuff the archive staff does, but this time I'm not shutting up, even if it costs me my access to the site.

I will not sit by and watch the staff support Kimmel while they censor us trying to help the family involved in the case here. Especially when Kimmel should be shut down for his lack of sterile procedure. You allow advertising ad-infinitem for Kimmel's services even though he jeopardizes people more than the person we are trying to help. Kimmel is known to pick up dirty instruments from the floor and keep using them as if they came out of a sterile package - the person we're trying to help immediately disposed of any instrument that touched outside the sterile field for even 1/10th of a second.

Shame that a hack (Kimmel) gets so much support from the community but someone that knows more about what they are doing cannot - only because he didn't have MD after his name. It's a shame we cannot even put out a plea to help in a case where people are being charged with an archaic 1754 law. Yes, you read that right 1754... pre-US independence from Great Britain. They have been charged under an old colonial law.

It's a clear double-standard.

And before you throw in the whole "Shannon wouldn't approve" argument again... he offered to help out. I just didn't take him up on it at the time because I didn't think there was any way that enough support could come from him and the BME folks to possibly post the bond.

Nope, I feel justified in my disgust with the EA staff. NO explaination needed from the archive staff as they are behaving in typical ivory tower fashion. Sometimes I wish there was an alternative site but apparently that is not to be. Alas, I come here because there is no alternative.