"How to make a Cherub"

[Slammr (imported)]

The word ‘paedophile’ emanates from the Greek and basically means ‘lover of children’. However, how ‘lover’ and ‘children’ are defined is open to wide interpretation. For example, at what age should a person cease to be regarded as a child? Also, the designation of relevant ‘lover’ could, on one extreme, be used to describe a person who simply platonically loves children as beings rather than experiencing any sexual urges towards them. However, on the other extreme, the term could be utilised for a predatory sex attacker, which sadly appears to have become the most common usage in certain quarters today.

I prefer the definition that refers to a person, usually male, who is sexually attracted to children but is not necessarily a sex monster.

The point of my story is that research has shown that the vast majority of paedophiles as so defined, who are sexually attracted to children, succeed in suppressing and disguising their urges in modern times, which are intolerant towards such passions. They furtively and passively admire but never touch and my tale essentially asks how the rest of society should regard and treat such people if they are ever somehow ‘outed’. Many of them will be otherwise worthy citizens, possessing excellent jobs and be loving and caring husbands and fathers. Given their likely numbers, you, the reader of this post, will probably be very well acquainted with such a person, as a close relative, friend, colleague or someone else you regularly meet. Do they deserve hysterical paranoid ostracism?

Meanwhile, as regards Slammr’s comment about the age of Chris in my story, I would ask whether his ultimate decision as a reader regarding this passive paedophile’s fate would be different if he was 36 as opposed to 16, and if so why?

PUEROS

I think Pueros paints with too broad a brush when he defines Pedophile. To me a pedophile is one who acts on his feelings. Even in today's society, we aren't jailed for our thoughts. If so, most of the writers on the Archive would be behind bars now. The person in Pueros's story might be guilty of the possession of child pornography, but not of pedophilia. We're using the same word, but we're obviously talking about different things.

[Pueros]

I believe that psychologists & psychiatrists still call people with a sexual attraction to children, but who never perpetrate any act against them, 'paedophiles'. Do you, Slammr, have a better alternative word?

PUEROS

[Slammr (imported)]

I believe that psychologists & psychiatrists still call people with a sexual attraction to children, but who never perpetrate any act against them, 'paedophiles'. Do you, Slammr, have a better alternative word?

PUEROS

I can't argue with your definition of pedophile. It's accurate. All I'm saying is that, until someone commits an act, it makes no difference what he thinks or feels. If someone is sexually attracted to kids, but doesn't act on that attraction, it shouldn't concern society, or anyone else. I would never condemn anyone for loving or even being sexually attracted to kids. One can't help what he feels. He can only control what he does.

I personally prefer to use pedophilia to refer to someone who has sex with children. Your use of the word is probably more accurate than mine, but the way I use it is more in line with society's perception of the word.

I write about children. Obviously, I have an interest in them. Whether I love them, whether I find them sexually attractive, is my business. It's only society's concern were I to act on that attraction.

We can banter back and forth about the use of the word, but we accomplish nothing. You've explained how you use the word, and I hope I've explained how I use it. Whereas you seem to be defending the word, I prefer to defend those who have the aforementioned feelings, but do not act on them. If you're saying its all right to have sex with children, then we disagree. If you're saying it's all right to love children and find them sexually attractive without acting on it, we have no argument.

[StefanIsMe (imported)]

If you're saying it's all right to love children and find them sexually attractive without acting on it, we have no argument.

Ah... nail upon the ol' head. The Eunuch Archive is the only place I feel comfortable discussing this at all, actually, and its because the above quote is a pervasive sentiment here, it seems (although not shared by all, of couse). Freedom of speech and thought and all that.

Pueros, I agree with you when you say "

I believe that psychologists & psychiatrists still call people with a sexual attraction to children, but who never perpetrate any act against them, 'paedophiles'

". Your latest story was perhaps more heavy handed than usual but you had a point to make. It's refreshing to have a bit of a wakeup call now and again. That being said, I also know that my prefrences re. my sexualty cant just change from what it is; it sometimes seems unfair that liberal society in general can clearly and happily accept that being 'gay' is inate and unchageable, as is being 'straight', but mention boylove, and I'm sure they can think of dozens of ways to 'fix' that problem... including jail, church, and mental institutions. I guess what I'm saying is as a non-practicing but self-aware ped/boylver, I will continue to enjoy what are my only sources of succor to my sexuality; Boywatching at the mall, and reading the wonderfull stories at Eunuch.org and others sites... including, hopefully, many more of yours, Pueros! You are always an interesting read. Thanks for that!

[Pueros]

I defended my particular use of the word ‘paedophile’ because its usage appeared to be challenged & I believed that, as my latest story was entitled ‘The Paedophile’, I was obliged to do so.

Slammr has, however, identified the message that I was trying to convey in the story, namely, to use his words, ‘

If someone is sexually attracted to kids, but doesn't act on that attraction, it shouldn't concern society, or anyone else

’.

I posted my tale because there is evidence that society is becoming increasingly concerned and paranoid about all paedophiles, including the vast majority who are passive, a situation fuelled by media hysteria. My aim was to try to suggest to people in general that they think about the subject more carefully before reacting, or otherwise unnecessary draconian laws might indeed be introduced, particularly in the USA when you have such a right-wing President as Bush in office with a compliant Congress. The White House incumbent could be in a position to successfully sponsor such legislation by reshaping the ageing membership of the Supreme Court in his own populist reactionary image. This was the reason why I set my tale in the year 2010.

PUEROS

[Paolo]

Pueros states that Society is becoming increasingly paranoid, etc.

I think that he is right. Let us digress for a bit

When I was a boy, and let’s round it off to 30 years ago, one of my favorite things to do was to sit and watch the evening news with my next-door neighbor. He was a single man in his forties at the time. Unmarried. Several brothers and a sister. Only he stayed at home to care for Mother. She was God’s Kindergarten teacher, I think…anyway

When the commercials came on, he would quiz me over what I had learned or thought I had. He always made sure I got home safely, even though it was only a 2 minute walk. His door was always open. When I was sick or injured and had to stay home from school, HE was the one who took care of me. Without him, I am sure that I would not have survived childhood.

He was killed in a freak accident in 2001 at the age of almost 80.

When all was said and done, one of the things that I recovered of his possessions was a collection of thousands of color slides, 35mm format, shot during his lifetime. Currently, one of my Aunts is in possession of them, as she is in many of them as child with the church group. She got them AFTER I weeded them, however.

I weeded them because there were an inordinate number of images of boys. NONE of them would fall into the guidelines of professional imaging rules on child pornography. Not by a long shot. Boys in swimwear is as close as it got. Dead fish and other murdered small animals are a major theme, along with the little darlings who murdered them! Hunting, mushroom hunting, fishing, swimming, camping, hiking…all of the things that boys of that era loved to do were all there in those slides.

During boyhood, I can recall being referred to as “D’s boy” many times. When I began sorting slides, I found that I wasn’t the first. But I was the last. For reasons unknown, D. retired his camera right after I came along. There was ONE image of me as a baby. While there are many landscape images from later, pictures of the dog, etc., there are none of us together or any of just me. This is sad.

Was there physical contact between us?

Yes.

And there was a LOT of it.

But never anything sexual. Not even a hint.

It was along about the time that I overheard a conversation between those who – at the time – had custody of me. They made an accusation that D. “liked little boys” and that “that’s not normal.” “P. isn’t HIS kid.” ‘Betty’, as I will call her, soon went on a campaign to separate us – even going so far as to suggest moving away.

While D. and I were never denied contact, and I soon made life absolute hell for the female who had custody of me, I was never denied contact with D. She soon left. I do not miss her. I never did. In my 12 year old mind, she had crossed the line in her accusations and made a enemy of me. My bag was packed that night, and I was to be found hiding in D’s garage, waiting for him to come home from work.

It was right after this that all physical contact stopped.

One may use the words “pedophile” or “boylover” all they want. They may take these words in context however they choose. They may think of D., or any other man who opens his heart to a boy that is not his own son/relation, in any way they choose. Sadly, many of them will take “Betty’s” opinion, and probably do terrible damage in the process.

To this day, did I even know if D. had sexual thoughts of me, or any other boy?

No.

I will never know.

And frankly, with the childhood that he helped give me, it DOES NOT matter in the least. He NEVER did anything to me in a sexual context.

Yet the thoughts and opinions voiced by one woman caused a cascade of reactions. It’s even worse today.

Now, as an adult and part-time parent to five boys, I find myself confronted by the same accusations. I am a single male in my thirties. I have no biological children of my own. I have already been put through the so-called “wringer” once by a woman who did not approve of my relationship with a lady who had a young son at the time. Accusations flew. I refused to back down. Self-expression is not one of my problems, nor is my command of language. When I was done with her, she went away so rattled and embarrassed that she never came back. Sadly, it cost the friendship of her son and the son of the lady I was seeing.

So, now we come back to Pueros’ initial comment.

A few years ago, I took my oldest nephew, then 12, to the park. I also took my camera. After taking several portrait poses of him with local flora and fauna, we moved to the playground equipment. Not three frames into the next roll, some brave woman approached me and demanded to know what I was doing with a camera and a boy in the park, taking pictures of him. Her children, she said, were playing there as well and she did not want pictures taken of her children. She ranted and went on and on for some time before I laid into her. I then took a picture of HER, took her license plate number, and filed a complaint of harassment. Was I taking pictures of HER kids to begin with? No. There were other children in the park, yes, and some of them did wind up in a few of the shots of MY nephew on the playground equipment. After a thorough review of the existing laws concerning photography in a public place, I found that I was not in the wrong. I do have every right to take pictures of ‘my’ kid in the park, thank you very much.

Still, this is a perfect example of the paranoia of our Society. It seems that it is now reflex to assume the worst. Is it because of our more thorough media coverage and broadcast of events nowadays? I don’t seem to recall hearing things like this when I was a boy, and thanks to D., I was a very informed boy. I was probably the only 8-year-old at the time who understood Watergate!

If you haven’t seen the movie, “L.I.E.”, rent it. Try and find the NC17 version.

There is a perfect example of Society’s attitude towards a single man with a boy in this film. While nothing has happened between the man and boy in the film at the time of the scene, we see a perfect depiction of the assumption that Society will make when confronted by a man with a boy.

Yes, the character in the movie does have sexual intentions. It is a movie about “boylove”. It is not a happy film. There is no pornography, so to speak, in it. At least, not what my printing guidelines at work would call it. It’s a perfectly legal film for USA release.

So, while this post probably doesn’t settle any of the issues, it does get something out of MY system and also provides an example that’s probably only going to provoke more thought and resolve nothing. What I’ve said only states my own personal observances of what Pueros points out. Having been victimized by a few of those “who know better,” I know exactly what those like me face. There is knee-jerk attitude out there, in that men who simply adore children are monsters.

Again, I can’t speak to the point of where a boy (a male under the age of 18, I mean) is ready to have sex. I cannot speak to the ends of ‘with whom’ he should have sex with. I also can’t advise on what to do with those who may have sexual thoughts towards boys (or girls) but do not act upon them. This is another reason why I feel the Story Archive here is important. It allows all genres to come and vent their own thoughts and desires in a text-based way. I think it’s therapeutic, if nothing else. I know it has been for me, in giving me an opportunity to vent out some of my boyhood fears and anxieties.

One writes what he knows.

It’s in sharing his experiences that one comes under fire.

[Pueros]

Thanks for sharing some of your views & history with us, Paolo.

In response, I'm reminded of some lines from a verse by the ancient Greek poet, Callimachus of Cyrene, who could have been writing sympathetically about 'D':-

‘That elder ages with a cheerfuller heart

Whom young boys love and lead up to his door,

Taking his hand as if he was their father….’

PUEROS

[Paolo]

Exactly, Pueros.

What other kind of man could simply grab a tube of Miracle Glue, when a boy smashes an antique WW2 German vase, and say, "Well, you broke it, you fix it."

And before we go any further off into the wild tangent here, I also enjoyed this story about The Cherub. It's thought provoking, and brings to mind a Reality that could have, might be, or is to come.

[A-1 (imported)]

I agree.

That was an interesting story, Paolo. Thank you for sharing.

In my neighborhood as a boy there was also a man who I took a liking to. HE lived with his wife, however, and they were childless. I will call him M---

The other neighbors always thought of him as a little odd, but he would help you in any way and keep his mouth shut. HE always was ready with a story about his youth in the mountains of Missouri, a WWII exploit a WWII tale of his POW days in Germany and how he came home from the war weighing 60 lbs. From the time that I was about 10 years old he was my friend, and it seemed that he could fix almost anything.

When I was 17 he helped me once when I went out on a date with a girl, parked in the woods and got stuck when trying to leave to come home. We walked to a house and I called him. He came to get us and brought a chain. We took her home and then we went back and he helped me pull my car out of the mud where we got stuck. I was never embarrassed around him. I never got a lecture, questioned about what was going on, nothing. God, I loved that old guy.

He always was ready with a story from his youth, and occasional reference to castration of a farm animal in a non-threatening sort of way. None of us were afraid of him. We could confide in him things that we would never tell our parents. Maybe that is why I hang out here with the castration stories and all. He was the first person who ever told me what that castration stuff was all about.

I remember when he came and told dad and I that J***** (15-year-old boy who lived next door to him) was passed out in the back yard next door with his nose in a gas can. He knew that dad would call the police and he knew that it had to be done but he just could not bring himself to do it. We promptly went over and pulled him off of the gas can and he was out passed cold. After the police and ambulance arrived and J***** was revived and taken to the hospital the police made out the report and told my friend that he had saved J*****'s life.

J***** came and thanked us all the next day. After that, J***** stuck with his home-made malt - beer. No more inhalables, except, perhaps, for the 8 foot tall weed in his back yard that turned out to be marijuana. None of the neighbors knew what it was. M--- knew. You see, the 1960's were fun times to be young, or older, as it turned out.

M-- was always befriending children and adolescents. That did not change after his wife died as the results of a stroke and an extended illness. There was even a rumor that he had taken a young girl to get an abortion. That was before all of the laws and restrictions were enacted on that sort of thing. Every child that I knew of loved the old man. Most of the adults didn't care for him. My parents, to their credit, liked him, however. I think that was because I trusted him and they respected our friendship.

One night after I was married and had 4 children still at home I got a call from my father. He told me that ____ ( an underaged teenaged girl) was at his house and that she had went to see M--- and that M--- would not come to the door but she knew that he was home because the house door was open with just the screen door shut and that his car, his truck and his bicycle were home.

We went there and walked in, his door was never locked, and he had fell over dead while using the toilet. She begged us not to call the police, but what else could we do? The police came, a coroner's case was called. The police promised not to tell her parents unless some question arose about her story! Later, it was found out that he actually had died of a heart attack. He was around 80 when he passed away. I was ashamed in a way because I had started thinking like an adult and I worried about foul play. The girl was totally innocent and she cried over M--- just as I did.

Even at my age I miss him at times. I visit him and his wife at the graveyard from time to time. They are in the same graveyard where my parents are buried. He was rumoured to have a lot of money but I do not think that he did.

Sometimes people are just people. Sometimes they want to have friends of all ages and sexes and there is nothing wrong with that.

The moral of this story is just because you are an adult and are no longer innocent does not mean that everyone is that way. Sometimes adults really identify with young people, and there is nothing wrong with that as long as they are not exploiting those young people.

I remember seeing a sign recently. It said, "...hug a child, but it had better be YOUR child."

That is sadly, so true. While it may take a village to raise a child, not all of us are privledged enough to hug one and have nothing thought of it.

These are sad times in which we live. There is no trust anymore.

A-1

[C van D (imported)]

There's been a lot of excitement since I started this thread, so here are my sentiments:

a) Coercion of a child, whether boy or girl, is rape in any language and should be severely punished.

b) I don't believe it's possible for a pre-pubescent boy to experience the sort of deep emotion that adults do, when having sex. Sure, he may say "I LIKE doing this" but that's only the thrill of satisfying dirty curiosity.

c) I know that in my stories Simon and his mates get sodomised on various occasions but I hope I've made it clear that his abusers are satisfying lust, not love.

d) Pedophilia and pederasty both translate "love of boys". I do understand classical Greek tho' I don't cram my PhD down people's throats.

C van D