It's a case of wearing rose colored glasses affecting how you see the world. I don't know what color glasses you have to wear to think that all vegetarians are liberals, or all liberals want bears in their back yard.
When you dislike a group, all you can see are the negative things. For instance once you have lumped all the liberals and vegetarians into a group who want bears to have the right to come on their property, you fail to take note of the liberals and vegetarians who think that having bears in the backyard is a very bad idea. Thus you only attribute the negative.
By the way vegetarianism and liberalism are two completely distinct and separate things. A vegetarian may be a liberal or a conservative. Adolf Hitler was not a liberal, but some say he was a vegetarian. Even if he was not a strict vegetarian, it is clear that he certainly advocated the lifestyle.
It's time to quit lumping people into groups as a simple knee jerk reaction and look at the real facts on the ground. Here are some more. There are over 6 billion people on the earth today, and they all need to live somewhere. Inevitably the human population will encroach on formerly wild areas. This is how humans come into contact with nature. It has nothing to do with politics.
A Chupacapra found in Texas
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jemagirl (imported)
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transward (imported)
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Re: A Chupacapra found in Texas
I find it amusing and a little scary just how quickly this, which was one of the least political topics on the board, turned into political partisan name calling. Aside from being a label you might call an enemy, "goat sucker" does not seem to fit into the usual red-blue bickering. I swear we seem to be able to use any topic as a springboard to political rants.
Transward
Transward
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DeaconBlues (imported)
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Re: A Chupacapra found in Texas
OH! OH! OH MY GAWD! NEWS FLASH!! I actually have something relevant to post!!
I just read this article in my local newspaper and I think I has some "BEAR"ing on this case.
http://kingmandailyminer.com/main.asp?S ... leID=33820
Sunday, September 27, 2009
Predators will follow wildlife to populated areas, G&F warns
KINGMAN - The local office of the Arizona Game and Fish Department is pleading with residents of the Hualapai Mountains to stop feeding the deer and elk populations, lest they find themselves feeding a hungry mountain lion as well.
It's been a frequent refrain from Game and Fish officials, but it's no less urgent now than in years past. In a recent news release, Zen Mocarski, the department's local information and education manager, warned that a mountain lion recently killed an elk between two houses in the Pine Lake community of the Hualapais. Despite being a species normally active during twilight hours, the mountain lion was later spotted walking through a neighborhood in broad daylight, according to one sportsman's report.
"I'm concerned," Mocarski said. "These types of situations can escalate quickly. Feeding issues in this area have created a smorgasbord for this lion, and potentially other predators."
Officer Lainie Antolik is a wildlife manager for Game and Fish who is active in the Hualapai area. She said many of the elk she's seen have lost their natural instinct to forage due to the easy availability of human food. Some people have even set up feeding troughs in their front yards to attract elk, deer and even javelina.
"Some of the neighbors have named these animals and call them by name," Antolik said. "We understand people love to watch wildlife, but we want them to watch them in the wild. We don't want them to bring them into their communities by feeding them and creating watchable wildlife that way."
While it's rare for mountain lions to attack humans, Antolik said that's mainly because the lions aren't used to humans and typically run away from them. With so much free prey in the area now, however, she said it's possible for a stray mountain lion to stick around long enough to lose its natural fear of humans.
"They come into the community, they've got deer and elk everywhere they can feed on, they see humans, and they'll start getting used to them," Antolik said. "Once they get used to them, they don't get bothered by them anymore and they tend to stay in the area."
Antolik noted that once mountain lions make a kill, they will typically cover it with leaves and come back to feed off it for several days. If the kills are hidden in an area where humans live, however, an unsuspecting person may attract the lion's attention by wandering too close.
"Someone may be walking by that prey item and not know it, and then they'll be between the lion and its prey, unknowingly," Antolik said.
According to Mocarski, Game and Fish had to kill two mountain lions in the late 1990s after the lions began preying on local pets in addition to their usual quarry. If those residents don't want the same thing to happen this time, he said, they should stop feeding now, rather than later - and remember who's ultimately responsible if the lion does become a public safety threat.
"When a problem escalates, those who fed the animals won't accept the responsibility for when these elk, deer or household pets become victims to a predator," Mocarski said. "If (the current) lion becomes a public safety threat and is killed, those feeding will turn a blind eye and blame Game and Fish."
Aside from mountain lions, however, Antolik noted that the elk and deer themselves are still wild animals, no matter how used they are to eating out of people's hands, and they too can pose a threat to the humans who feed them. The opposite is true as well, since many human foods lack the nutrition that elk and deer get from their typical diet of grasses, flowering plants and tree sprouts. Once they get used to eating human food, Antolik said, many of them stop their natural foraging habits in favor of raiding local garbage cans.
"If you see the elk and deer in the communities, they're not very healthy looking," Antolik said. "We've had three incidences over the last several years where we've had elk with trash can lids stuck around their necks. Elk should not be foraging through trash cans."
Antolik said she and Mocarski will attend a homeowner's association meeting to discuss the problem further at 5:30 p.m. Dec. 12 in the Kingman Fire Station No. 2 at 1605 Harrison St. Based on past results, however, Antolik was already skeptical that the meeting would actually change anyone's behavior.
"The people that tend to show up to these meetings are the ones who agree with us and want to see something done," she said.
For more information or to report mountain lion activity, call Game and Fish at (928) 692-7700 and press 0 for the front office.
I just read this article in my local newspaper and I think I has some "BEAR"ing on this case.
http://kingmandailyminer.com/main.asp?S ... leID=33820
Sunday, September 27, 2009
Predators will follow wildlife to populated areas, G&F warns
KINGMAN - The local office of the Arizona Game and Fish Department is pleading with residents of the Hualapai Mountains to stop feeding the deer and elk populations, lest they find themselves feeding a hungry mountain lion as well.
It's been a frequent refrain from Game and Fish officials, but it's no less urgent now than in years past. In a recent news release, Zen Mocarski, the department's local information and education manager, warned that a mountain lion recently killed an elk between two houses in the Pine Lake community of the Hualapais. Despite being a species normally active during twilight hours, the mountain lion was later spotted walking through a neighborhood in broad daylight, according to one sportsman's report.
"I'm concerned," Mocarski said. "These types of situations can escalate quickly. Feeding issues in this area have created a smorgasbord for this lion, and potentially other predators."
Officer Lainie Antolik is a wildlife manager for Game and Fish who is active in the Hualapai area. She said many of the elk she's seen have lost their natural instinct to forage due to the easy availability of human food. Some people have even set up feeding troughs in their front yards to attract elk, deer and even javelina.
"Some of the neighbors have named these animals and call them by name," Antolik said. "We understand people love to watch wildlife, but we want them to watch them in the wild. We don't want them to bring them into their communities by feeding them and creating watchable wildlife that way."
While it's rare for mountain lions to attack humans, Antolik said that's mainly because the lions aren't used to humans and typically run away from them. With so much free prey in the area now, however, she said it's possible for a stray mountain lion to stick around long enough to lose its natural fear of humans.
"They come into the community, they've got deer and elk everywhere they can feed on, they see humans, and they'll start getting used to them," Antolik said. "Once they get used to them, they don't get bothered by them anymore and they tend to stay in the area."
Antolik noted that once mountain lions make a kill, they will typically cover it with leaves and come back to feed off it for several days. If the kills are hidden in an area where humans live, however, an unsuspecting person may attract the lion's attention by wandering too close.
"Someone may be walking by that prey item and not know it, and then they'll be between the lion and its prey, unknowingly," Antolik said.
According to Mocarski, Game and Fish had to kill two mountain lions in the late 1990s after the lions began preying on local pets in addition to their usual quarry. If those residents don't want the same thing to happen this time, he said, they should stop feeding now, rather than later - and remember who's ultimately responsible if the lion does become a public safety threat.
"When a problem escalates, those who fed the animals won't accept the responsibility for when these elk, deer or household pets become victims to a predator," Mocarski said. "If (the current) lion becomes a public safety threat and is killed, those feeding will turn a blind eye and blame Game and Fish."
Aside from mountain lions, however, Antolik noted that the elk and deer themselves are still wild animals, no matter how used they are to eating out of people's hands, and they too can pose a threat to the humans who feed them. The opposite is true as well, since many human foods lack the nutrition that elk and deer get from their typical diet of grasses, flowering plants and tree sprouts. Once they get used to eating human food, Antolik said, many of them stop their natural foraging habits in favor of raiding local garbage cans.
"If you see the elk and deer in the communities, they're not very healthy looking," Antolik said. "We've had three incidences over the last several years where we've had elk with trash can lids stuck around their necks. Elk should not be foraging through trash cans."
Antolik said she and Mocarski will attend a homeowner's association meeting to discuss the problem further at 5:30 p.m. Dec. 12 in the Kingman Fire Station No. 2 at 1605 Harrison St. Based on past results, however, Antolik was already skeptical that the meeting would actually change anyone's behavior.
"The people that tend to show up to these meetings are the ones who agree with us and want to see something done," she said.
For more information or to report mountain lion activity, call Game and Fish at (928) 692-7700 and press 0 for the front office.
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FianceeUvBigGuy (imported)
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Re: A Chupacapra found in Texas
Deacon,
There are many instances where "animal lovers" have done great harm by creating an artificial sustenance situation.
Here in the San Antonio area there are some subdivisions that once were wonderful old ranches, now cut up so that someone can build their "dream home". Well, the resident wildlife is virtually trapped and many are killed by soccer moms driving Range Rovers.
As the land is cleared for development less and less forage is available and so the happy campers, many of which claim to love wildlife but destroy habitat so they can have their whims satisfied, resort to feeding deer and birds, (while expressing horror and outrage when a fox, raccoon, or possum, they too stressed by the loss of their natural world, "steal" the goodies.)
Attempts by RESPONSIBLE homeowners or the mayors of these little townships to halt the practice are generally foiled by bleeding hearts who simply can't or won't comprehend or admit the damage they do.
The result is an excess of deer (especially) who destroy gardens and some shrubs and flowers, and there have been several deer attacks on folks just puttering about in their yards or trying to carry groceries into their homes.
This is really a hazard in the late Fall, when the bucks are in rut and ready to rumble with ANYONE and in the Spring when the does are protecting their new fawns. Some attacks have resulted in permanent injury or death to the humans involved.
Attempts by the TPWD (Texas Parks and Wildlife) folk to trap and relocate excess deer have been foiled and bans on feeding, even those bolstered by threats of criminal charges, are ignored by the idiots who believe Bambi was real.
There have been proposals to allow archers and crossbow hunters to enter these neighborhoods to safely thin the herds and donate the meat to orphanages, churches, homeless shelters, etc, but those have been stymied by the you-know-whos.
Our regular deer season opens in November and I assure you that, quite legally, humanely, and without waste I will do my part. My license allows several deer, including Whitetail bucks and does as well as a couple of Mule Deer (West Texas) and I intend to both harvest my allotment so well as train and guide others in doing likewise.
Yoli
There are many instances where "animal lovers" have done great harm by creating an artificial sustenance situation.
Here in the San Antonio area there are some subdivisions that once were wonderful old ranches, now cut up so that someone can build their "dream home". Well, the resident wildlife is virtually trapped and many are killed by soccer moms driving Range Rovers.
As the land is cleared for development less and less forage is available and so the happy campers, many of which claim to love wildlife but destroy habitat so they can have their whims satisfied, resort to feeding deer and birds, (while expressing horror and outrage when a fox, raccoon, or possum, they too stressed by the loss of their natural world, "steal" the goodies.)
Attempts by RESPONSIBLE homeowners or the mayors of these little townships to halt the practice are generally foiled by bleeding hearts who simply can't or won't comprehend or admit the damage they do.
The result is an excess of deer (especially) who destroy gardens and some shrubs and flowers, and there have been several deer attacks on folks just puttering about in their yards or trying to carry groceries into their homes.
This is really a hazard in the late Fall, when the bucks are in rut and ready to rumble with ANYONE and in the Spring when the does are protecting their new fawns. Some attacks have resulted in permanent injury or death to the humans involved.
Attempts by the TPWD (Texas Parks and Wildlife) folk to trap and relocate excess deer have been foiled and bans on feeding, even those bolstered by threats of criminal charges, are ignored by the idiots who believe Bambi was real.
There have been proposals to allow archers and crossbow hunters to enter these neighborhoods to safely thin the herds and donate the meat to orphanages, churches, homeless shelters, etc, but those have been stymied by the you-know-whos.
Our regular deer season opens in November and I assure you that, quite legally, humanely, and without waste I will do my part. My license allows several deer, including Whitetail bucks and does as well as a couple of Mule Deer (West Texas) and I intend to both harvest my allotment so well as train and guide others in doing likewise.
Yoli
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Riverwind (imported)
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Re: A Chupacapra found in Texas
I don't hunt but I do agree with you, Don't feed the bears. You are not doing them a good deed, your leading them to death.
The guy next door, who should know better a few years ago was feeding baby Raccoons because there momma died on the road. I had a fit, now every fall this little critters come back when the corn is high in the field next to us and guess where they come to sleep, hang out? you guessed it, they come home to daddy and tare up his yard, sleep on his truck (leaving scratches) into everything that is his, they leave my stuff alone. So now he sits on his porch and shoots them to get rid of those pests. The idiot.
There are over 5000 different spices of animals in the world and over the last 10,000 years man has been able to domesticate about 20 of them. There is a reason there wild, idiots.
River
The guy next door, who should know better a few years ago was feeding baby Raccoons because there momma died on the road. I had a fit, now every fall this little critters come back when the corn is high in the field next to us and guess where they come to sleep, hang out? you guessed it, they come home to daddy and tare up his yard, sleep on his truck (leaving scratches) into everything that is his, they leave my stuff alone. So now he sits on his porch and shoots them to get rid of those pests. The idiot.
There are over 5000 different spices of animals in the world and over the last 10,000 years man has been able to domesticate about 20 of them. There is a reason there wild, idiots.
River
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jemagirl (imported)
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Re: A Chupacapra found in Texas
When I was in grade school my science teacher used to profess and expound on the differences between mankind and the animals.... I guess this reflected the thinking of the times, which was that man was man and superior to all of the other animals.
My opinion is the only difference between man and animals is that we are the only animal who thinks we aren't an animal...
AND the consequence of this thinking is what leads to most of our problems with the other animals!
When people swim at the beach and there is a shark attack, they blame the shark.
So then sharks become a bad thing.
Never is there any self examination about entering the shark's environment and bobbing around like an h'orderve. We enter the food chain thinking we are not a part of it, and then we get bitten and find out we are.
It is the same thing with bears and mountain lions. Bears and mountain lions don't see us as humans, they see us as other animals, which we are. Sometimes they attack because they see us as a threat. This can happen when you get between Momma bear and her cubs. Some time they see us as prey.... as in the case of a few mountain lion attacks in California for instance.
Occasionally mountain lions come down out of the hills and into our suburban world. This happened a few years ago in the Palo Alto, Stanford area. It had been a tough a year for the deer in the area and as a consequence it had been a tough year for a young mountain lion. It was hungry and looking for a new food source.
It came near an elementary school and the Palo alto police department ended up shooting it. A lot of people objected. There was a lot of condemnation of the police for not darting the lion and taking it back to the hills where it had just come from because it was starving...
It seems like very few people bother to do the math. Well the mountain lion did the math and thought the elementary school looked like a good place to grab a bite to eat. The mountain lion does not make the distinction between mankind and the animals. To the mountain lion we are one of three things... a threat, a prey item or a competitor.
So if we want to have better relations with the animals, we need to start thinking about how they see the world, and how they see us when we are in their environment. If we want to live separately from them we should not build our homes in their environment, nor should we invite them into ours. Most of all we need to stop seeing ourselves as separate from nature. We are not. Everything we do has an effect on nature and we need to acknowledge that.
My opinion is the only difference between man and animals is that we are the only animal who thinks we aren't an animal...
AND the consequence of this thinking is what leads to most of our problems with the other animals!
When people swim at the beach and there is a shark attack, they blame the shark.
So then sharks become a bad thing.
Never is there any self examination about entering the shark's environment and bobbing around like an h'orderve. We enter the food chain thinking we are not a part of it, and then we get bitten and find out we are.
It is the same thing with bears and mountain lions. Bears and mountain lions don't see us as humans, they see us as other animals, which we are. Sometimes they attack because they see us as a threat. This can happen when you get between Momma bear and her cubs. Some time they see us as prey.... as in the case of a few mountain lion attacks in California for instance.
Occasionally mountain lions come down out of the hills and into our suburban world. This happened a few years ago in the Palo Alto, Stanford area. It had been a tough a year for the deer in the area and as a consequence it had been a tough year for a young mountain lion. It was hungry and looking for a new food source.
It came near an elementary school and the Palo alto police department ended up shooting it. A lot of people objected. There was a lot of condemnation of the police for not darting the lion and taking it back to the hills where it had just come from because it was starving...
It seems like very few people bother to do the math. Well the mountain lion did the math and thought the elementary school looked like a good place to grab a bite to eat. The mountain lion does not make the distinction between mankind and the animals. To the mountain lion we are one of three things... a threat, a prey item or a competitor.
So if we want to have better relations with the animals, we need to start thinking about how they see the world, and how they see us when we are in their environment. If we want to live separately from them we should not build our homes in their environment, nor should we invite them into ours. Most of all we need to stop seeing ourselves as separate from nature. We are not. Everything we do has an effect on nature and we need to acknowledge that.
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chilliwilli (imported)
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Re: A Chupacapra found in Texas
My one request...you can feed the chupacapra, the moutain lion or the deer but please, please...
"Please don't feed the vultures."
chilli-
"Please don't feed the vultures."
chilli-
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Sweetpickle (imported)
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Re: A Chupacapra found in Texas
A few weeks ago a lady living near denver, who liked to feed the bears,
became dinner for one of her "friends"
became dinner for one of her "friends"
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SplitDik (imported)
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Re: A Chupacapra found in Texas
Regarding bears, coyotes and mountain lions, we get all of these in my neighborhood (have had bear droppings in the yard several times this month) and a lynx was spotted a block away.
Anyway, what people forget is that all these animals have personalities just like pet dogs/cats. While it is true that most of these are fairly timid/shy, there are some that are mean, some that are aggressive, some that are not afraid, etc.
Last year a male black bear was blocking my driveway, and no matter how much I hollered or blew the horn on my truck or rev'ed the engine and lurched at him with my truck, he simply wasn't afraid. He just looked at me and slowly walked around, and I was stuck for about 10 minutes until he decided to wander off. I even shot him with a slingshot (I didn't shoot full strength cause I didn't want to actually injure him) and he barely bothered to look up. Anyway, a couple days later the same bear broke into a house nearby and when the police came the bear charged them and they had to shoot it.
Anyway, my point is people who just say "leave the bears alone and they won't bother you" simply haven't experienced enough bears. I've had bears that were so shy you'd never see them, and others that would stand on your patio trying to see what you're doing inside.
They have personalities, and some of them are sadly incompatible with roaming close to human habitation.
Anyway, what people forget is that all these animals have personalities just like pet dogs/cats. While it is true that most of these are fairly timid/shy, there are some that are mean, some that are aggressive, some that are not afraid, etc.
Last year a male black bear was blocking my driveway, and no matter how much I hollered or blew the horn on my truck or rev'ed the engine and lurched at him with my truck, he simply wasn't afraid. He just looked at me and slowly walked around, and I was stuck for about 10 minutes until he decided to wander off. I even shot him with a slingshot (I didn't shoot full strength cause I didn't want to actually injure him) and he barely bothered to look up. Anyway, a couple days later the same bear broke into a house nearby and when the police came the bear charged them and they had to shoot it.
Anyway, my point is people who just say "leave the bears alone and they won't bother you" simply haven't experienced enough bears. I've had bears that were so shy you'd never see them, and others that would stand on your patio trying to see what you're doing inside.
They have personalities, and some of them are sadly incompatible with roaming close to human habitation.
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Free to be ME (imported)
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Re: A Chupacapra found in Texas
I wonder if anyone has had the common sense to 1 call in an zoologist
2 taken a blood and tissue sample and had dna testing done. This poor animal from the looks of it is either a greyhound with mange that was abandoned after its race days were over a sad common thing done. or a Doberman with mange. I lean toa dobie/greyhound mutt. oh yeah the Montauk monster was a drowned black bear that was half decayed. First thing that goes is hair and nose seen enough drowned animals from falling throu thin ice on the lake i lived on. the maine so called goat sucker was dna tested guess what dog with mange.
2 taken a blood and tissue sample and had dna testing done. This poor animal from the looks of it is either a greyhound with mange that was abandoned after its race days were over a sad common thing done. or a Doberman with mange. I lean toa dobie/greyhound mutt. oh yeah the Montauk monster was a drowned black bear that was half decayed. First thing that goes is hair and nose seen enough drowned animals from falling throu thin ice on the lake i lived on. the maine so called goat sucker was dna tested guess what dog with mange.