You know, if everybody who doesn't REALLY NEED an SUV traded it for a regular sedan (Honda Accord, Chevy Impala) or even a small car (Toyota Yaris, VW Jetta) they would double their gas mileage (or more). Think about it. Do you REALLY need a FourRunner or a Durango to drive that 2 miles to the gym?

Terry

The fundamental problem with the electric car is the (for most potential customers) killer combination of relatively short range and long recharge time. The second is actually more of a problem than the first. Suppose your were driving from Washington DC to Boston. You would certainly have to tank up a regular car at least once, but that would take about ten minutes max, including taking a piss (sitting down like a woman, perhaps). What are you going to do for 3.5 hours? And even if you are going a shorter distance, such as Washington DC to New York, or New York to Boston, although the car could just make it on a full charge, what if you've been using it for a couple of hours in town before setting out, so that your range is no longer sufficient for the trip? very environmentally committed people may be willing to accept these limitations, but the general public, on whom the commercial success of a car depends, will not.

Also, the electric car is not as environmentally friendly as is often supposed. Its electricity has to come from somewhere, and that somewhere is most likely a power station burning fossile fuel, perhaps a coal fired station, and these are among the greatest contributors to CO2 and global warming.

Peace to all electric car fans! I'm just saying it is not a panacea.

You folks in the sun belt have all seen TV shots of us northerners digging our cars out of snow and connecting jumper cables. This is one of the biggest weaknesses of electric cars; at 80 degrees, you may have 90% battery power. Drop the temperature to 20 and you probably have 33%.

Better batteries are on the horizon, but they're not here yet.

Terry

Gee, interesting information about the diesel motors. I am not so sure that the small ones would be a problem, however, I suppose that they all add up. Flo, do you have the address for

Uncle Flo (imported) wrote: Fri Sep 01, 2006 5:12 am the Marine Engineer's trade publications?

This article (http://www.greencarcongress.com/2005/08 ... ts_hy.html) claims that diesels are more efficient than hybrid vehicles.

Here (http://www.renewableelectricity.com/carfight.htm) is more information about the American automobile manufactuers.

strassenbahn,

This car (http://www.greencarcongress.com/2005/08 ... hi__1.html) gets gives top speed of 180 km/h (112 mph) and a cruising range of 250 km (155 miles).

As reported by IEunuch, the Tesla Roadster (http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/ar ... 1149/rss26), is a battery-powered electric sports car ($85,000 to about $110,000) that the company says can go up to approximately 135 miles per hour and run for 250 miles per charge.

Subaru's effort (http://www.evworld.com/blogs/index.cfm? ... blogid=112)

When 90% of commuters drive less than 40 miles to work, the current technology willl be sufficient to start high useage of all of these options.

TB from PBH, your comments aout battery discharge are interesting. This site (http://www.mpoweruk.com/performance.htm) attempts to illustrate these and other concepts,

More comments, lively discussion, everyone!

Here are GM's specs on the EV-1 (http://www.automotive-technology.com/projects/gmev1/)

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Minus 30 degrees F is certainly not unheard of in my little corner of the world. At that temperature a wet storage battery produces 15% or less of its rated power. A discharged battery will freeze in short order and be ruined. That would be something of a drawback for an electric car. --FLO--

Flo,

Do the Lithium-ion batteries have that problem, also? For a conventional gas engine, (Diesels don't do so well in COLD weather) what antifreeze mixture do you use?

Where I am the temperature has NEVER got below -25 degrees fahrenheit.

Even at that temperature few cars started.

A-1

So let us get down to "brass-tacks? Who makes the "wheel"-electric motor of the "new electric - car and how much is one pair or two pairs If I want one on each wheel.??

Price, WHO makes it, Voltage and Max Current. How does, or does hydraulic brakes fit in the Wheel-Drum-Electric Motor ??? Can I get such a motor for say $100 a piece ?? And the Voltage is probably like volts 150 Volts DC ?? Yes the Current say varies between say + or - 10 Amperes. That is 150 X 10 = 1500 watts. Am I way off ??

Maybe Max Current is 100 Amperes and then the Power is 150X100 = 15 kilowatts

only on PEAKS however. When You have the four Wheels payd for and installed, and the Breaks still work the same, then worry about feeding these 2 or 4 motors mounted in the wheels with some "battery Power" of 150 Volts. 12 Volt Batterues X 10 will give You 120 Volts. Close enough ?? Turn on a SWITCH to see if You get some ADDITIONAL "accelleration" - only when You need it. Leave all the Motor stuff alone untill You have full condidence in the added ELECTRICAL POWER that You turn on and OFF wifh that SWITCH. Yes battery chargers, one at home. A solar pannel on the Roof, An improved Generator on the Main Engine etc. all kind of way to charge Your battery Bank. Get a Big Volt and Current mEETER to mount on the Dash so You know how much Voltage and Current Juice You have left and are using etc.

Fancy dash pannel and fancy Digital contoll circuits comes much later and by then probably PepBoys and others will carry additions to YOUR own ELECTRICAL CAR.

If You can make one that works, You can tell others to make one too, and You don't need a MANUFACTURER to MAKE IT FOR YOU. So start with the MOTORS. and try them out with a bank of 12 Volt Batteries to see how it PULLS and so fort. Racing ?? N3RF

n3rf,

Great idea. I need to try this before long.

This site (http://www.motherearthnews.com/Alternat ... d_Electric _Car) has some interesting information from one who made his own hybrid electric car.

You can find information on the history of electric cars here. (http://www.hybridcars.com/history.html) Perhaps the most interesting story happened torward the end of the 'contrived' gasoline shortage during the Jimmy Carter administration.

1979

Dave Arthurs of Springdale, Arkansas, spent $1,500 turning a standard Opel GT into a hybrid car that could get 75 miles per gallon, using a six-horsepower lawnmower engine, a four-hundred-amp electric motor, and an array of six-volt batteries. Mother Earth News used the Arthurs plan to build their own hybrid, which averaged 83.6 miles per gallon. Sixty thousand Mother Earth News readers wrote in for the plans, when the magazine published their results.

Look at this (http://www.jalopnik.com/cars/museum/) just for fun.

Even MORE information here... (http://www.discoversolarenergy.com/DIY/vehicles.htm)

Look here... (http://www.leftlanenews.com/2006/05/05/ ... -and-wins/)

The Wrightspeed X1 has been getting a lot of media attention lately, with an increased interest in alternative energy amid high fuel prices. While this is not the most efficient application of electric car technology, it is most certainly the coolest. The X1's lithium batteries give it a 150 mile range. It can hit 60 mph in just 3 seconds — that's faster than just about anything out there, less the $1.3 million Bugatti Veyron. It's faster than a Mercedes SLR, Corvette Z06, or Ferrari Enzo. It's also a heck of a lot faster than a Ferrari 360 Modena or Porsche Carerra GT, which it is shown racing in the video after the jump

I think that a mini-van configuration with an automatic transmission might be a good start. There is plenty of room in a minivan for batteries and a gasoline electric AC generator to suppliment the batteries. With an AC electric motor, and the gasoline engine and torque converter removed, the electric motor could drive the automatic transmission directly. The gearing would allow the motor to be pulsed at a much lower rate and thus reduce the drain on the batteries, increasing the mileage. I am thinking an early 1990's GM minivan as a base. The rear suspension could be easily reinforced to handle the additional weight.

I feel that nobody is working seriously on electric vehicles and worse, the powers that be discourage any publicity regarding somebody who would do this.

I may try it, and soon...

A-1

Here are a couple of things that haven't been mentioned, but which do bear on the problems involved in using electric cars.

In the first place, the batteries in an electric car would probably wear out faster than the motor in a gasoline or diesel vehicle, and the replacement costs for batteries, even for lead-acid batteries would be very high, because deep discharge batteries are required. I would guess the replacement costs would be several thousand dollars for a car with a range of 200 miles or more. They might have to be replaced in as short a time as four or five years.

Beyond that, accessories would use a significant percentage of all the electricity used in an electric vehicle, and that could substantially reduce the range of the vehicle. Heating and air conditioning would use a lot of electricity, and headlights and other lighting would be a drain on batteries at night. Although the electric drain is probably small for each minor accessory which uses electricity, most of the accessories in a vehicle use electric power, from the GPS systems in some cars to in-car television to power seats and windows.

The electric drain from accessories would be insignificant in a fuel cell car, which is, I would think, one reason why the major car manufacturers are doing most of their research for electric propulsion vehicles on fuel cells.

Beau Geste,

Hybrid cars with self-contained generators do not have the problems that you outlined that pure electric cars have.

Electric cars that do 0-60 in less than 4 seconds probably have plenty of battery reserve. You may not have to get the batteries replaced until it took 8 seconds to go from 0-60.

Anyway, that is how I see it. One place on one of those sites that I submitted suggested a 10 year lifespan on the lead - acid batteries that they used. Die-hard batteries form Sears have a 5-year warranty. I had one once that had a lifetime warranty but it came from Montgomery Wards.

Also, battery technology is likely to change if these cars come to be, with the sealed car batteries that we have now being made more serviceable and re-usable. As you know, car batteries do not have the same life span.

Most of the problems with car batteries today result from internal shorts. In many cases internal shorts in batteries come from the electrolyte being replenished with tap water instead of distilled water. Tap water contains impurities which short out battery plates. There is lots and lots of lime dissolved in the water in my area. It just kills batteries if you use this water in them a lot.

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