Why can't we buy a Battery-Electric Vehicle?

[A-1 (imported)]

This (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battery_electric_vehicle) is a Battery Electric Vehicle.

E-V 1's CRUSHED by GM after their program. (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/e ... rushed.jpg)

Reviews (http://www.google.com/movies/reviews?ci ... views&cd=1) of "Who Killed the Electric Car?

See the trailer. (http://www.apple.com/trailers/sony/whok ... ectriccar/)

Don't work, click here! (http://news.sonyclassics.com/sb40/SCL/d87374_89067.htm)

Indian Company (http://www.revaindia.com/) poised to corner the market in electric vehicles. --- So much for the theory about the "Third World" oil consumption tied to national development.

MY CHOICE (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tzero) of electric vehicle --

The version debuted by AC Propulsion in August 2003 is powered by 6,800 lightweight lithium-ion cells, similar to those that make up the battery packs of laptop computers, giving it a 300 mile (480 km) range. Lighter than the original version by 700 pounds (320 kg), the 2003 edition goes from 0-60 mph in 3.7 seconds. The single gear ratio limits the car's maximum velocity to just over 140 mph (225 km/h) at 13,000 rpm with proper gearing, though it has never been tested at greater than 105 mph (169 km/h). The base price of the car is USD $220,000.

--- I need to get the price down some, though...

LK how it works. (http://auto.howstuffworks.com/electric-car.htm)

BULLSHIT FROM GM'S "OFFICIAL" PROPAGANDA SITE! (http://www.gm.com/company/onlygm/fastlane_Blog.html#EV1)

Wouldn't Joseph Goebbels (http://www.calvin.edu/academic/cas/gpa/goebmain.htm) be proud of GM?

Do it yourself electric car conversions (http://www.electroauto.com/index.html) of existing cars.

FUCK GM, Chrysler-Damien and FFFORD...

...and their friends, the oil companies...





A-1

COMMENTS, PLEASE...

[A-1 (imported)]

Education update sites...

http://www.acpropulsion.com/

http://www.electroauto.com/index.html

http://www.electroauto.com/catalog/catalog.shtml

Isn't it time that YOU did something?

A-1

[radar (imported)]

I don't have any strong feelings one way or the other on this topic, A-1 (though I do like the little roadster), but a few engineering questions do arise:

Given that with hybrids, the overall economic paybacks have been shown to be nonexistent, how do we justify going all the way to electric only? Recent studies of actual hybrid owners have shown that fuel economy isn't anywhere near the advertised numbers, and is in fact no better, and often worse, than that of an equivalent gasoline powered car. This is based on real-world results, not EPA fantasies.

Is the energy cost of manufacturing the batteries in the first place sufficiently low to yield a positive savings balance when compared to gasoline vehicles?

How does the pollution cleanup cost weigh against that of gasoline vehicles when disposing of or recycling the worn batteries? These are not lead-acid batteries for which we already have mitigation measures developed, so might require significant (and expensive) interventions to prevent toxic contamination.

There's also the matter of conversion efficiency. The generation of electricity, while getting close to 60% for combined-cycle natural gas fueled turbine units remains at only about 34% for the many traditional boiler systems still in use. The overall efficiency of power transmission and distribution, as well as that of converting from electric to chemical energy for storage, and then back again from chemical to electric to motion introduce additional conversion efficiency factors. Can it be shown that all-electric cars would still yield an overall energy savings over gasoline power, even considering these conversion losses?

What about infrastructure? Yes, the entire country is electrified, but few locations have the service distribution capacity to supply the load that a few dozen recharging vehicles might impose. A car that uses 30 horsepower to travel down the highway for 2 hours consumes nearly 45,000 watt-hours of energy. To recharge the batteries, even over a 6 hour period, would require just over 32 amps of electricity at 230 volts. That's for each car. Will that car still yield an energy savings, even when the energy cost of providing the infrastructure is taken into account? How about the pollution cost of mining and smelting all that copper?

Don't get me wrong, I think alternatives are something we should seize upon when they provide a genuine benefit. I'm just not convinced that such a benefit yet exists for all-electric vehicles. That may be a large part of why GM backed away from the EV-1.

[BossTamsin (imported)]

Just give me one of these and I'll be completely happy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Roadster

0 - 60 in 4 seconds, top speed of 130 mph, and a range of 250 miles on a single charge. Designed partly by Lotus, recharge time of about 3.5 hours, and named after one of the chief founders of the modern world.

All this for somewhere in the range of $90,000. So, who wants to buy me one?

[n3rf (imported)]

A-1, You are the BEST combiner of GOOD info I ever MET./JSm N3RF

[A-1 (imported)]

Dear n3rf,

(Thank You!)

radar

Where have you been? I haven't seen one of your posts for a long time.

Anyway, many of the answers to your engineering questions can be found on the web sites that I have listed. Take some time to read through therm and you will be sold as I have been.

In most electric cars, there is an option of a tow behind trailer with a generator that uses gasoline to run a generator to charge batteries. The best part of this is that theoretically, at least, this is similar to the system used on diesel-electric locomotives on the railroads, except that locomotives do not have to have batteries because no great loads are needed for rapid acceleration. The system is very efficient in that the electrical charge is stored by the batteries and in most systems it can cruise at 80 mph all day long without running the batteries down.

It is the same system used on some production hybrid cars that make mileage boasts of up to 60 miles per gallon.

It IS time to do something. IF you want to invest money and you sincerely believe that Slammr is right about the impending petrol shortage then this is way to go. No petrol would be used except on long trips and even then you could minimize petrol use by shutting the generator down and going your last 200 miles or so under battery power and then charging your car fully at your overnight place of lodging.

We can do better than we are doing with petrol consumption in America. If I were president, I would mandate that American car manufactures market at least 80% electric cars withing 10 years by a graduated system that would increase by 10% a year.

IT is simply inexcusable to let this technology languish when the country is being held hostage to Middle Eastern oil.

A-1

[Eunuken (imported)]

I did have a chance to drive the GM EV1 once, and I really enjoyed the power and quiet ride it gave, but the price and fact that you could not buy one, they only offered them in a Lease was a put off to me and many others

I've been wanting an Electric car for a while, but until they have the range of a normal car on a single charge and can recharge in a reasonable amount of time they are just not practical; but until that time I would settle for one of the VW's with the TDI Engine, they get nearly 50mpg and with some simple exhaust and chip modifications they will do better then that.

I've heard some rumors that Honda is or has made a Diesel hybrid that gets over 80mpg.

We in California have another hurtle to over come, California's rule that only a truck of 3/4 ton or higher load rating can be sold with a diesel engine new, all others are allowed if imported after so many miles, I guess they cannot stop that. My question to the state is " if a car gets more then 50 mpg How can that be polluting more then a truck that's getting 15 or 20 mpg? go figure.

Right now Josh and I have purchased a Yamaha Morphus 250cc Motor Scooter and it gets 68 mpg and we really enjoy riding it around town and on the Freeway. Much better then the 21mpg my SUV gets on a good day.

Thats my $0.02 worth

Ken

[A-1 (imported)]

Thanks, Ken...

I find this...

California's rule that only a truck of 3/4 ton or higher load rating can be sold with a diesel engine new, all others are allowed if imported after so many miles, I guess they cannot stop that.

...troubling.

Does anyone have any insight as to how this came to be?

...are the lawmakers in California on crazy pills, or what?

A-1

[Uncle Flo (imported)]

Diesel engines while more thermaly efficient than gasoline engines are "dirtier". Specifically, they produce many times the solid particulate emissions (soot) that a gasoline engine does. This is leading to a growing regulation of Diesel engines. In the future you can be sure that the use and design of Diesels will be restriced where ever there are effective pollution regulations. This is even being applied to large sea going engines which burn Bunker C oil rather than #1 or #2 diesel fuel. Diesel engines and diesel fuel in the United States must now meet a whole new set of regulations designed to reduce emissions and an even tougher set of rules is being written. The new fuel formulations have resulted in diesel fuel costing more per gallon than gasoline instead of the other way around. With this and the increasing thermal efficiency of gasoline engines combined with the greater initial cost of a Diesel engine and the higher maintence cost (to say nothing of the weight increase of a Diesel) more than wipes out the economic benefit of a Diesel engine in a light vehicle. Don't you read the Marine Engineer's trade publications? --FLO--

[kristoff]

Diesel engines while more thermaly efficient than gasoline engines are "dirtier". Specifically, they produce many times the solid particulate emissions (soot) that a gasoline engine does. This is leading to a growing regulation of Diesel engines. In the future you can be sure that the use and design of Diesels will be restriced where ever there are effective pollution regulations. This is even being applied to large sea going engines which burn Bunker C oil rather than #1 or #2 diesel fuel. Diesel engines and diesel fuel in the United States must now meet a whole new set of regulations designed to reduce emissions and an even tougher set of rules is being written. The new fuel formulations have resulted in diesel fuel costing more per gallon than gasoline instead of the other way around. With this and the increasing thermal efficiency of gasoline engines combined with the greater initial cost of a Diesel engine and the higher maintence cost (to say nothing of the weight increase of a Diesel) more than wipes out the economic benefit of a Diesel engine in a light vehicle. Don't you read the Marine Engineer's trade publications? --FLO--

I just read the latest version, Flo. Excellent foldout. Very sleek, trim, sexy diesel engine on the center fold.