I decided I wanted castration a few months before I discovered I was HIV+ in May of 1987. But I no sooner made that decision than I got a slew of misinformation from my doctor and a priest about castration. That misinformation caused me to change my mind rather quickly. It didn’t cause me to loose my acceptance of the idea, though.

I kept on masturbating three times a week in spite of church teaching and my attempt to be a faithful Catholic. Occasionally, I had a sex partner. Affairs never worked out for me as a gay musician; most men hated my occasional poverty too much and wanted me to sell shoes or flip burgers instead. In any event, after getting a steady job as a cab driver in a big city, I didn’t have time for a social life on top of occasional piano jobs that included one gig with Oprah Winfrey.

Apparently, my sexual “problem” was all above my neck in spite of what common sense had known for centuries about the male sex drive. If my regular masturbation did something positive for me, I don’t know what that is. I guess it proved to me that self control is not all in the mind. In my opinion, we still have too much faith in Freud.

After realizing last March that self control can’t possibly be all in the mind, I decided to check out what was said on the Internet about castration. Within a day, I was again convinced that castration was for me. It did lower the sex drive; my doctor was wrong back in 1987. Apparently, it couldn’t be against church teaching if the Vatican employed castrati at the Sistine Chapel; the priest was wrong. My study went much deeper, but you get the picture.

I was filled with rage at the misinformation that I had been handed twenty years earlier. It also enraged me that everyone who resisted me in castration seemed to “know” for certain that I wasn’t a remorseful child molester or maybe even another Jeffrey Dahmer who just hadn’t been caught. But yet many also supported me; one was my social worker. Unfortunately, none of my supporters were urologists.

Had I been castrated as a teen or younger as I wanted, I never would have ended up HIV+. I have a little cousin who studies music; he has been clearly attracted to the same sex since birth. I wonder what is best for him. We need to discuss this as a society.

After wrangling and waiting for months, I finally had my first appointment in June with a shrink about my desire for surgical castration. This Mexican-born shrink—who also holds a US state license—was totally supportive within minutes of speaking with me. Most of those who support me have always been Mexican. Why? But understandably, no supporter wanted me to do the job myself.

This shrink promised a letter would be ready for me the following month at my second appointment with him. That second appointment was last Friday, July 20, at 2:15. But the Tuesday before this second appointment with my supportive shrink, both my urologist and my GP had their first telephone conversation with each other. In this conversation they decided that NO MAN should be castrated--even an HIV+ man like me--for sexual self control. Knowing I was HIV+, my GP had even offered me Viagra last February. Mmmm. Would YOU trust his judgment?

This was the second time the urologist team that had initially expressed support seemed to change their minds. It was the first time my GP changed his mind although he was never totally supportive from the beginning. Clearly, I had had enough running around. Not only that, I began to wonder if Medicaid, my only insurance, would pay for the simple operation. Just making the arrangements seemed to be a constant merry-go-round that I didn’t need.

So Thursday afternoon after devouring all the information that I could find about DIY castration on the Internet (including here) since last March, I decided to use an $25 elastrator I had ordered over the Internet in May. Other than passing out from the pain, it seemed my biggest risk would happen if I did not constrict blood vessels as tightly as possible before cutting with my sterilized Exacto. I also decided that I would avoid infection when cutting by being sure that the elastrator band would be ABOVE anything I had cut with the Exacto. I had Polysporin and Provodine Iodine (suggested by an emergency worker) ready to go. I didn't want to cut and thought of every way I could avoid it.

I planned to use three bands, folding back the dead scrotum inside out and up over the lowest band and holding the inside out scrotum in place with the middle band. How could the top band slip off like that? It would also make the daily washing of the dead skin and application of Polysporin in the low opening easier.

Before proceeding, I prayed and thought and thought and prayed while reviewing all the warnings I had heard and read. I decided I would not be too proud to go to ER if things went wrong. Thankfully, I never showed up there though today I am a eunuch--or so it seems. At least I know now how to castrate myself with only short term pain and very little risk. I'm surprised no one has mentioned my method before—that is—what I discovered by accident. It basically amounts to a combination of using a Burdizzo and elastrator. Yet there is no bloodletting at all to this method I discovered. And like Martha Stewart says, “That’s a good thing.” But back to my story. . .

Much to my chagrin, I discovered late Thursday that I could not even get one testicle, ONE TESTICLE through the opening in my $25 elastrator! Were my balls THAT big?

After a few hours of experimenting with different items off my body, I decided to use speaker wire to cause my testicles to go numb (and hopefully bloodless) and then cut off my balls and immediately put on the small, hard rubber band around my testicles using the elastrator. It seemed terribly risky, but I was emotionally ready for a trip to the ER.

The speaker wire was especially appealing because like telephone cords or other similar rope-like objects, it has the strength of wire but the safety of a plastic coating; metal cutting the skin over a period of time can be very risky. Both components made slippage next to impossible but would give me the needed ability to change the position of the speaker wire around my balls in case I needed it. It is important to place the speaker wire low enough. One must get as close to the balls as possible so that there is enough scrotum to accommodate future erections.

But believe it or not, I discovered that by simply knotting one four-foot long strand of split speaker wire (it comes in one plastic casing around two sets of multiple, tiny copper wire strands) around my ball sack, and pulling it tight with all my might, I inadvertently castrated myself. I’m sure one could also accomplish the same thing by twisting—using a torque technique if one doesn't know how to make a simple knot that doesn't slip. (Loop the end through your first "O" more than once.) Therefore, no severing of any type—cutting or banding—is necessary it seems. And a Burdizzo works too quickly. There is a good reason for the short time of a Burdizzo if you think about large numbers of livestock that many ranchers have to deal with.

We know that castration can be accomplished without cutting because of a Burdizzo. But I think the extremely short time with a Burdizzo is the cause of so many problems men have with it. Why not try to accomplish the same, fundamental thing with much more time and much more control? After all, a Burdizzo is made to do one beast after another and most of us have the time to do the job slowly and to do it right.

From about 10 pm Thursday night to about 4 am Friday morning, I kept tightening the speaker wire around my ball sack. I would tighten till I felt a little pain and then wait twenty minutes or so until the sack went numb and I could tighten it again. I repeated this process maybe a dozen times. I’m not sure of the number of times I tightened because I didn't count them. I did get to the point where my ball sack was numb.

For the first few hours, the sensation almost seemed pleasant but around 1:30 am, pain gradually came to that entire area of my body. It began to crescendo to fever pitch, going from a one to ten on a scale of one to ten in less than an hour.

It is extremely important here to note that the intense pain I first felt was INTERNAL. That is, the pain was clearly in my spermatic cords and not in my pinched scrotum.

I suspect that pain is an important indicator here and I would not advise trying to avoid it too much. I had a strong sense that this intense internal pain was taking me past the point of no return. It was naturally telling me exactly where the damage was taking place. Nonetheless, I took two Aleve. Would I have missed that "tell-all" pain if I had taken the painkillers sooner?

Within the normal time it takes for those pills to work, the pain subsided back to the very low point in the beginning though I did not loosen the speaker wire around my scrotum; I kept it on. My balls had become numb on the outside. Where they numb on the inside? I'll never know. All in all, I would say that I experienced intense pain for about 90 minutes. I kept thinking of those who experience intense pain non-stop from back injuries and so on.

For some reason, I always sensed that I could handle long-term pain that involved taking off a device as opposed to the intense, quick, and chancy pain of a Burdizzo. I suspect I am not the only who feels that way. I guess it has a lot to do with control.

But by 4:00 am, a strong and different pain began to come back. But this time it was a different type of pain, as if my scrotum was suffering irreversible damage. I had a strong sense that I should take off the speaker wire and rethink my strategy. I took off the speaker wire and the second pain session quickly left me. I jumped into bed and fell asleep.

After I awoke, I slowly began to realize that I had castrated myself. And there had been no blood, therefore no risk of infection and most importantly, no risk of bleeding to death. I felt good enough to keep my appointment with my shrink. Would I tell him what I had done a few hours before?

I arrived 15 minutes early. Believe it or not, there was no one in the waiting room. "Come on in!" my doctor ordered.

We discussed politics, his favorite subject. After some discussion of how glad he was to give me a letter recommending an orchidectomy, I told him it might not be necessary. I explained what had recently happened with my GP and urologist. After a while I told him about what I done earlier that morning with speaker wire.

"Did you break the skin?" he asked casually.

"No," I told him.

“That’s good.”

“I know that’s where the greatest danger lies: drawing blood by cutting yourself.” I then went around his desk, dropped my pants and showed him my scrotum from three feet away.

"They look fine to me," he observed. He looked closer. "I barely see the mark of the speaker wire around them." He looked closer. “I’m not sure I do see it.”

"How did I do it?" I asked him. “I mean, what part of the spermatic cord did I injure?”

"What you probably did was cut off the blood supply through the arteries long enough to cause your testicles to die. We'll see. If that’s what happened, they will get smaller.”

He blithely changed the subject somewhat. “But let me know if you still need that letter. I will stand behind you because I am convinced that you should have the operation if you need it." We talked a bit more about how stupid and chicken those guys in the medical community are about the subject. Though all psychiatrists are certified medical doctors, this one offered no lectures about any great risks that I took. He almost seemed as proud of me as I was of myself.

Even though it's only 48 hours since I took off the speaker wire, I know my sex drive is far more dead than normal. I am exhibiting all the symptoms of castration: less sweating, eunuch calm, occasional throbbing in the scrotum, etc. In any event, I can't help but think that another episode like the one that I started Thursday night could only move me closer to my goal just in case this doesn’t work out. I’m convinced my testicles are badly injured if they are haven’t started down Atrophy Road to Deadsville.

It’s too bad there isn’t more information out there to save others and me from possible permanent injury. But nothing in life is perfect except Barbra Streisand. I guess the worst that can happen is that I will need an operation to correct my mistakes; then my insurance will more than likely pay for it. What a drag!

In any case, I want to thank all those who have shared what wisdom they have on this site and others. It is only by comparing notes and speaking freely about this subject that castration wannabes and society at large will be more able to make well-informed decisions about this or any other subject.

I know some fools will say that I am lucky. But I suspect those are the same fools who say I’m merely “talented by nature” at music even after spending 42 years of practice and study on the subject. “Genius is 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration,” they say. So let's keep perspiring.

I am glad you are safe. Thank you for sharing your story. Please watch for changes in color to your scrotum. Also be aware of odors which could be a sign of necrotic tissue.

As a castrated male I was surprised you are having the effects of castration in such a short time period. A follow up visit with a doctor to check your T levels might be a good idea in a few weeks or a month. This will let you know if you truly succeeded.

For me being gay and catholic used to be a struggle. I used the small c because I no longer practice the faith or follow the church teachings. I was aware of the love and goodness in me and I could not attend a church where they denied my need for love. After all it is okay to be gay as long as you do not act on those feelings. If you do you are no longer in a state of grace and are not able to receive the sacrements. I can only speak for myself but I know who I am and what I am about and my own spirituality and I am sorry the church is not willing to acknowledge me and the gifts of love God gave me.

tomsaltsman (imported) wrote: Sun Jul 22, 2007 8:37 pm I have a little cousin who studies music; he has been clearly attracted to the same sex since birth. I wonder what is best for him. We need to discuss this as a society.

I think we need to let him decide. He may grow up and fall in love with a wonderful man.

Tugon has it absolutely right. We need to let him decide. We also need to make certain that he gets adequate counseling and fully understands all of his options before doing anything outside the standard path.

Recent work on the brain indicates that irreversible decisions ought not be be made before age 25.

tomsaltsman (imported) wrote: Sun Jul 22, 2007 8:37 pm Even though it's only 48 hours since I took off the speaker wire, I know my sex drive is far more dead than normal. I am exhibiting all the symptoms of castration: less sweating, eunuch calm, occasional throbbing in the scrotum, etc. In any event, I can't help but think that another episode like the one that I started Thursday night could only move me closer to my goal just in case this doesn’t work out. I’m convinced my testicles are badly injured if they are haven’t started down Atrophy Road to Deadsville.

48 hours is definitely too quick for your reactions to be physiological. There is a very large psychosomatic component here. Unless your body is constructed differently than most everyone else's, it's also unlikely that you've done much, if any, permanent damage to your testicles.

You will need the letter from your psychiatrist. There are urologists out there who are willing to provide surgery if, and only if, they have such a letter on file. Between your psychiatrist and a cooperative surgeon, there should be a way to get medical insurance to cover it.

JesusA (imported) wrote: Mon Jul 23, 2007 12:51 pm 48 hours is definitely too quick for your reactions to be physiological. There is a very large psychosomatic component here. Unless your body is constructed differently than most everyone else's, it's also unlikely that you've done much, if any, permanent damage to your testicles.

You will need the letter from your psychiatrist. There are urologists out there who are willing to provide surgery if, and only if, they have such a letter on file. Between your psychiatrist and a cooperative surgeon, there should be a way to get medical insurance to cover it.

Speaking to a Psychiatrist is (honest) not a bad thing. What you say is strictly private and they have heard it all. Their help maybe just what you need. And don't think Surgeons are not asking men to do this for lots of different surgery. They want to insure you make a sound rational choice when you sign the consent form so you can't say later that it was because your a "nut" and can sue them for 8 gillion dollars.

Jesus - I thought Hormone levels hit the floor 8 hours after surgical removal? And no, I have no idea where I read that but...

That said - I agree. TALK TO A DOCTOR. Do it yourself surgery is not safe. And men are not "cattle, sheep or goats" so the farm equipment used to emasculate them is not a good plan. Or speaker wire?

This is tomsaltsman again, the "speaker wire guy." Thanks for all the input from everyone, even if I didn't agree with it. My opponents give me reason to climb back up on my soapbox and those who can point out things like watching for color changes make a lot of sense.

So it's been about 76 hours since I removed the speaker wire. As you may have guessed, I still suspect I am castrated and have not yet experienced any resurgence of my sex drive that other eunuchs don't experience. But as Jesus pointed out, it is still too soon to tell. I definitely haven't masturbated, though the thought has occurred to me; I suppose the "basement" part of my body needs an "upstairs" reason to get an erection.

Some clarifications: (1) When I stated that I "realized I was castrated," I am only referring to a strong sense, a feeling. I still have enough sense above the neck to know that I need more time to be sure. (2) When I said that "no supporter was a urologist," I should clarify that I "seemed" to have found one who pulled out at the last minute.

MRT says that we are not cattle. True. But we are mammals like them and share much the same anatomy. Yet a mammal can't tell you if he is hurting in the long term. That is the important difference. If I have successfully castrated myself, I am amazed at the ease with which I did it. Having my left ear pierced was more of a headache with all that daily soaking in saline solution.

My little cousin grow up and fall in love? Turgon seems to live in a dream world. Give me a break. Reality check: statistics show that the average gay male "relationship" (assuming one can find one) lasts only two years. I believe the CCC (2358) has it right: "The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexua tendencies is not negligible. This inclination...constitutes for most of them a trial." Many if not most gay men I know are like an acquaintance of mine who frequents truck stops to meet his intimacy needs. No thanks; that's not my idea of a great life. Give me extended family any day of the week. (But maybe my extended family is nicer than most.) In any event, I think a pre-pubescent eunuch is a beautiful creature and our world needs more of them. I still want to talk about it.

Hey, Roxanne, I got a book in my head that goes through all the teachings of Christ, one by one, and documents how most "Christians" can find some reason to sweep those teachings under the rug. The most frequently ignored teachings of Christ are the ones regarding greed and wealth. But maybe ignoring the Golden Rule tops those. It's a laugh riot to watch these self-deluded mental cases say they take the Bibl "literally." No. They only take the unscientific allegorical parts literally, like the Creation Story in Genesis. Meanwhile, 50,000 poor people die of things like starvation every day so real reprobates like Pat Robertson can prove God "favors" them by wealth.

Back to castration. . .there is so much confusing stuff out there. For example, Dr. Wassersug in one of his published papers praises BME for providing reliable information about DIY castration. I find BME to be too short to make me feel safe, though it makes very good points. BME claims, "When the band [elastrator] is secured, the testicles are tightly tied off at the base of the scrotum and allowed to die from lack of blood. This process can take up to six or more hours, but in some people, irreversible damage may occur within the first hour of applying the band."

Around six hours seems to be the magic number to cause "irrevesible damage." Compare this information to an article on testicular torsion on Wikipedia that naturally treats inadvertent castration as a negative outcome. This article states toward the end: "Testicular torsion is a medical emergency that needs immediate treatment. If treated within 6 hours, there is nearly a 100% chance of saving the testicle. Within 12 hours this rate decreases to 70%, within 24 hours is 20%, and after 24 hours the rate approaches 0. (eMedicineHealth) Once the testicle is dead it must be removed to prevent gangrenous infection. (Italics added)

What? It is so amazing to compare those who say the testicle can be so easily damaged to those who insist that rubber bands and other devices can't do the trick of DIY castration. What is the truth?

I also have another important question along these lines. If "the testicle is dead it must be removed to prevent gangrenous infection," as Widkipedia insists, why have so many men left those dead testicles in the sack after using a Burdizzo? Or is "gangrenous infection" one of those "low risk" situations that are not normally life threatening, much like regular infections? Is color change an indication of this dangerous state?

There is an article on testicular

tomsaltsman (imported) wrote: Tue Jul 24, 2007 6:14 am My little cousin grow up and fall in love? Turgon seems to live in a dream world. Give me a break. Reality check: statistics show that the average gay male "relationship" (assuming one can find one) lasts only two years. I believe the CCC (2358) has it right: "The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexua tendencies is not negligible. This inclination...constitutes for most of them a trial." Many if not most gay men I know are like an acquaintance of mine who frequents truck stops to meet his intimacy needs. No thanks; that's not my idea of a great life. Give me extended family any day of the week. (But maybe my extended family is nicer than most.) In any event, I think a pre-pubescent eunuch is a beautiful creature and our world needs more of them. I still want to talk about it.

When you reference the CCC(2358) could you tell us what it is? As a gay man I know many gay couples in long term relationships. I know many straight couples whose relationships do not last two years. The writings sounds to me like religious bias trying to discourage gay people from having a loving relationship. One of the biggest barriers for many gay people is religion and the guilt that went along with it. I have a good relationship with God but a poor one with the church.

As tolerance grows for gays and people become aware that we are fully developed human beings with the same hopes and dreams life is becoming easier. For young people today it is easier to be who they are and they have many more chances to meet someone and develop a relationship. Years ago when it had to be secretive and the one of the few oppurtunities was clandestine meetings at truck stops or parks relationships did not develop as easily but some did. Luckily today we have better options but for some old habits die hard. Some people want sex and not intimacy and that will limit their ability to have a relationship.

Absolutely not does our world need more created pre-pubescent eunuchs. If someone is born a eunuch I hope they are able to receive all the love and support and medical assistance they might need. I think it is a great crime to alter a human being before they are of age to fully understand what is being sacrificed. I think that wanting to create pre-pubescent eunuchs is the most unChristian like idea I have heard in a long time.

tomsaltsman (imported) wrote: Tue Jul 24, 2007 6:14 am My little cousin grow up and fall in love? Turgon seems to live in a dream world. Give me a break. Reality check: statistics show that the average gay male "relationship" (assuming one can find one) lasts only two years. I believe the CCC (2358) has it right: "The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexua tendencies is not negligible. This inclination...constitutes for most of them a trial." Many if not most gay men I know are like an acquaintance of mine who frequents truck stops to meet his intimacy needs. No thanks; that's not my idea of a great life. Give me extended family any day of the week. (But maybe my extended family is nicer than most.) In any event, I think a pre-pubescent eunuch is a beautiful creature and our world needs more of them. I still want to talk about it.

I think

JesusA (imported) wrote: Mon Jul 23, 2007 12:44 pm Tugon has it absolutely right.

Your little cousin should decide for himself when he is old enough.

It is for him to decide about his sex and gender using what is between his ears and in his hart. Hopefully he won't grow to be self loathing, using drugs and sex to fill the hole in his hart, but that has a lot to do with the love and support he gets while he is young. You may find prepubescent eunuchs beautiful, but I hope you aren't trying to encourage your little cousin along those lines.

I don't know what the CCC is but I have gay friends that have been coupled most of their adult lives and if promiscuity is a rational for orchiectomy there are a lot of heterosexual folks that would need to join the club as well. The problem with statistics is they are by definition weighted against the minority ( gays for instance ). What ever is statistically insignificant gets ignored. People should never be teated like statistics.

You quote this study by CCC who did a study of exactly what? What was their motivation to do the study in the first place? Are they a conservative think tank or religious group? If so have their findings been unduly weighted by their political or religious point of view? What are their qualifications? What was the size of the study group? Who was studied? What were the conditions in which the study was carried out? Where the subjects interviewed individually, one on one, or did the CCC cherry pick their data from other sources? Did they publish their findings for general consumption of the public or was there a process of pier review, and if so what is the consensus of their piers?

I would li

tomsaltsman (imported) wrote: Tue Jul 24, 2007 6:14 am ke to point out a few observations about the following:

"The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexua tendencies is not negligible. This

inclination...constitutes for most of them a trial."

The use of the phrase "deep-seated homosexual tendencies" suggest that the authors of t

tomsaltsman (imported) wrote: Tue Jul 24, 2007 6:14 am his study view homosexuality as a problem. Ditto for "This

inclination...constitutes for most of them a trial." So much for an unbiased study

I don't know if this is your typo or their writing style, but when they use a phrase like

"not negligible"

it leaves me wondering what exactly they were trying to say. I guess they are saying the number is actually significant. Perhaps even large enough to be considered important.

Sorry to hammer on you but I feel that a lot of damage has been done to our culture by this repugnant mixture of pseudo-science and religion that passes for enlightenment.

As some of you may have predicted already, my speaker wire experiment has already "petered" out. Back to the drawing board. I guess I'm lucky to have such a supportive shrink, so I should spend a few more months persuing that avenue. I just hate being the volleyball between all these so-called professionals over such a simple operation concerning my own body! I'm sure you all don't have to hear that sermon again!

Let's not get confused. No one is deciding for my cousin. It just raises the spector for me of why we don't have pre-pubescent eunuchs. There was a time when pre-pubescent eunuchs, castrati, dominated the European opera stage and even the Vatican. Whenever you see a woman in a "pants role" in opera (think of Mozart) that role was normally played by a eunuch. For more information, check out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castrati. For those who think of Michael Jackson, I still think he has a distinct beauty despite his faults that may have less to do with his presumed state and more to do with his upbringing.

I didn't specify, but from the highly conservative family that surrounds my little cousin, my biggest concern is him committing suicide if he turns out gay. And it's not that the family won't accept him. It's just that everyone in the extended family (that are descendents from canonized saints and the first American Catholic pioneeers) is embarrassed to have sex outside of marriage. And I'm sorry, I just can't see why that's such a bad thing to begin with. It makes us a very loving family. One cousin had her 50th wedding anniversary last month and her sister will have hers next year. My cousin will feel very bizarre without anyone saying a word. Hardy a year passes by without some extended relative having a 50th wedding anniversary and everyone's invited!

As far as gay-centered or any sex-centered culture: Been there, done that myself in San Francisco where I lived for 15 years. Sex addicts--gay or straight--are the most rude, most stuck-up, touchy, self-centered bunch of people I ever had to associate with. Awfu! And I was open-minded! Everyone who believes in that mess should be forced to live in it. (The majority of SF citizens live alone--it's that loveless!) My 15 years in SF were the most lonely of my life--so hard to even make friends. Compare that to where I live now and feel I have literally hundreds of friends. So don't blame me. If I have friends now, it can't all be my fault. Suffice it to say that since sex is not on everyone's mind here, my friends are more free to say, "I love you," without worrying about a restraining order being slapped against them.

But that stuff about "falling in love" is pure crap. Please. If love doesn't last a lifetime, it's not love, in my opinion. Most gay relationships don't even last a week. Give me a break.

I will not be checking back at this conversation again and don't want anyone to send me a message. But feel free to gossip among yourselves about me.