Sexuality Without Sex Organs

[Beau Geste (imported)]

I was reading some of the posts about how members of the archive had been thought by others to be flirting--with members of both sexes--and I also looked at the thread about which bathroom different people use. This started me thinking about the degree to which sexuality is changed by orchiectomy, by removal of the ovaries, or in ways related to various alterations in hormone levels.

I think Kristoff is on record as saying that he is both a man and a eunuch, and sees no contradiction in the statement. For myself, I don't think there ought to be any issue about whether a statement like that, for someone who has had an orchiectomy, is contradictory. In my view, someone's sex is something which is derived from his entire character as a person, and the sex organs are actually only the means by which the sexual nature of the person is expressed in reproduction. If you think about it, for a male, the actual reproductive function of his sex organs is only applied a half dozen or more times in his life, on average, and the rest of the time the sex organs really are just there as a part of his body.

You'll also note that in a lot of the literature about castration, when someone is castrated, that fact is described as his "sex conditon"--it isn't treated as a sign that he lacks a sex. And, while I don't think there is any question that some individuals are "females in a male body", for those individuals who have a specific sexual identity before removal of the testes, it would seem to me that they retain that same identity afterwards. I can remember reading, some time ago, that when male children suffer injuries to their sex organs and are "reassigned" as females, they usually tend to show noticeable masculine characteristics, even though the male organs have been removed. So perhaps sexual identities are very deep, and, in some sense, the organs might be thought of, more as expressions of sexuality than as producers of it. Obviously, someone desexed before puberty will fail to develop clear sex traits, but my impression is that the person still, in most cases, shows a tendency to have the traits of the sex he was born with.

Anyway, what this way of thinking about the nature of sex suggests to me, is, that the different ways that those who have had orchiectomies, or who are taking testosterone-reducing drugs, respond to persons or whichever sex they are attracted to, is simply another aspect of sexuality, perhaps one which was hidden before the reduction of hormones occurred. Maybe sexuality is sufficiently inherent in the makeup of the human body, and the human mind, that changes in hormone levels simply redirect sexual interest and sexual response, rather than eliminating or curbing it.

This is just some reflections by an observer whose entire knowledge of the subject comes from this website and other reading. I have in fact met a few women who had had their ovaries removed, and I didn't notice any distinct difference between them and women who haven't had the surgery. I realize now that I must have seen a considerable number of eunuchs over the years, but I had no way of detecting that they had had orchiectomies, and I have no idea who they were.

[surf_toad (imported)]

some of us prefer to identify as not male. i personally identify as not female either. my problem is that i still am male and must remain so for now due to the substantial investment in me by Bank of America and others. i am a slave of the system.

i think to a small degree there are some that choose to identify as neither, but most will continue to associate their self picture as that of their birth sex, especially if they are not in total rebellion to it.

some Transgenders are anti their birth sex, some are pro the other sex and some are just uncomfortable with themselves in general, thus the need (in this country anyway) for the counciling before anything drastic is undertaken.

unfortunently for us that do not fit into either of the defined rolls, counciling is never going to help and always going to try to program us to be one or the other of the solutions we have already come to realize are unacceptable.

but what are our options? precious few (legal and local) ones and less when it comes to dealing with family and employment.

that is why a lot of us live here. so at least in our minds, we have some peace, even if reality never comes.