Am I Wrong?

[Wolf-Pup (imported)]

Actually there is no real right or wrong as it is subjective. However...

1) If a wife/partner comes on here looking for information about castration for their partner shouldn't we try and get as much information about the situation as possible? Currently there are two different threads from two wives with very different purposes in coming here for information. In both cases people seemed to immediately jump to the "try chemical castration" option first. IMHO I believe we should talk to them and educate them to the effects of castration. What it will mean for their husbands physically and mentally. The very last thing before real castration should be a chemical trial. That shouldn't be the starting point though.

2) I also think we should be primarily supportive of the member who is posting here. In the cases above it would be the two ladies who posted here looking for help and information. They are the members here and should be our primary focus. In the one case the husband CLEARLY needs mental health services for depression, possibly severe depression. In the other case we should do all we can to help her understand what whould happen to her husband. Would he be the same person afterwards as before? If he changes a lot, can she deal with the new him? Or does she love the person he is now enough to not risk it.

3) This site has always been about educated people about castration. That seems to have fallen off some in the haste to promote chemical castration trials to anyone who asks about the subject of castration. We need to take a step back and find out more about newbie members. Why do they want it, offer alternatives as Splitdik and houseservant have done in the http://www.eunuch.org/forums/showthread ... castration thread. Whether it is a person looking to get castrated or their spouses the last step should be chemical castration, then if it goes well physical. There should be a lot of learning and educating before that. Maybe the online pharmacies making it so easy is a detriment as it becomes a quick-fix.

4) If and when suggesting chemical castration, I think it would also be wise to mention how long on average it will take to wear off if the person stops taking it. Depo Provera for instance being injected and released slowly over time will have a longer life in the body than a daily pill. If someone goes into a deep depression it would be good for them to know how long until the T comes back and they can hopefully pull out of it.

Thanks for reading....it just really been bothering me lately and I needed to get this out...

Wolf-Pup

[Elizabeth (imported)]

I don't think you are wrong at all. This is one of the best and most informative sites on the internet, not just for Eunuchs or transsexuals, but for any one single topic. Information is hard to come by on subjects that people do not like to discuss for whatever reason. I agree that first and foremost we should be concerned with getting the member information. It's not wrong to suggest that there is a process that leads to having a happy and healthy life and it's not wrong to tell people. Rushing into things without understanding is not the way to learn. Every step should be from the position of having made informed decisions. I do not support the position of "try it, you'll like it". Hormones are very serious business and can not only kill you outright, but have life long consequences both physically and emotionally.

I know that there is a sense of urgency, I remember when I had that urgency to do something now, just to feel I was doing something. I am glad that by coming here people were frank and honest and did not seem to have any agenda other than helping me make an informed decision. Happy outcomes happen when people make informed decisions. That minimizes bad decisions that can make things worse instead of better. We here at the Archive should never have an agenda, but instead offer information and personal experience. Never should we advise anyone to take hormones, except under a doctors supervision. Which is not to say we should be judgmental about those who do chose to self medicate. But rather to help others understand how serious and how dangerous messing with hormones on one's own, can be.

I see it like this:

1) Collect information

2) Seek therapy to make sure there is no underlying psychological or medical condition

3) Consult with others who are like minded about their experiences

4) Make sure one understands the consequences of the actions they are seeking, including loss of important relationships as well as stereotypical judgments of others.

5) Trial period on hormones and/or living as desired gender.

6) Reflection on ones actions and coming out of the closet issues.

7) Make changes in ones life necessary accommodate new reality.

8) Surgery to make changes permanent.

Elizabeth

[transward (imported)]

Some of it is simply harm reduction. Ideally this question should be approached calmly, rationally with careful research. Many of the people who show up here have no interest in rushing slowly. They're hellbent on grabbing a meat cleaver and a shoelace and whacking it off. For them, taking a step back to a chemical castration trial may be the difference between life and death.

for example se

e http://www.eunuch.org/forums/showthread.php?226

07-Help-Castrating-Myself

Transward

[Wolf-Pup (imported)]

Some of it is simply harm reduction. Ideally this question should be approached calmly, rationally with careful research. Many of the people who show up here have no interest in rushing slowly. They're hellbent on grabbing a meat cleaver and a shoelace and whacking it off. For them, taking a step back to a chemical castration trial may be the difference between life and death.

for example se

e http://www.eunuch.org/forums/showthread.php?226

07-Help-Castrating-Myself

Transward

I agree with that. What got to me is two posts written by wives who are being told to just do chemical. In one case that was absolutely the worst possible advice, and in the other it wasn't clear if she knew what the real effects would be. Certainly if someone show up here holding a knife to his scrotum pushing him to chemical is wise. It just shouldn't be the default position to any post looking for information. Especially to wives of men who may or may not know what that could do to their marriage. Castration as we know does a hell of a lot more than just libido reduction to a man.

I worry that the more/most senior members should be weighing in on some of these posts. I mean if someone posts that they want to be a woman, the first thing is not to send them to inhouse for hormones.

[punkypink (imported)]

do u wonder who are the ones here who seem calm and rational, who may very well appear on tomorrow's news dead? The ones who make a lot of noise get saved, those suffering quietly fall thru the cracks and then one day you don't see them on the forums anymore.

[Wolf-Pup (imported)]

do u wonder who are the ones here who seem calm and rational, who may very well appear on tomorrow's news dead? The ones who make a lot of noise get saved, those suffering quietly fall thru the cracks and then one day you don't see them on the forums anymore.

It is quite hard to tell the fakes from the people in genuine need of help. I try and take each person for what they post and respond accordingly. Right now there are three active threads started by wives of partners interested in the subject for very different reasons. I suspect a couple of them may be bogus, but don't respond from that mindset. I also don't understand telling a woman right off the bat to get her husband to try chemical castration. It seems far more important to me that she understands all the ramifications of that course of action.

I hope this forum could help all those who come here. We need to be thoughtful and measured in our responses to new posters whatever their reason for being here. Try and learn what is going on with why they are here, and advise accordingly. Not just jump to the various methods of chemical castration, alcohol injections or Doctor Arnkoff. Every person/situation is different.

[janekane (imported)]

The problem I have with people who are "fakes" is simply that I have never met one; what is fake to one person is, to another, a very significant issue that is poorly understood, and the poor understanding is what leads to the notion of "fake."

There are those who believe that people tell lies. I have a contrasting view. The telling of lies is actually impossible. However, when a person is prevented (through imposed coercion, terror, or other form of damaging threat) from telling in words of subjectively-experienced harmful experiences, and the harmful experiences are so harmful as not telling of them is impossible, telling without words will occur. There is a name for that, "acting out."

Given sufficient prevention of telling in words and sufficiently harmful experiences being told, what may appear to be the telling of lies is actually the truthful telling of the harm experienced.

There is harm that is mandated by cultural traditions which define the actual harm as not actual harm; it is this deception which, I find, far more than all else, generates the deception that telling lies is actually possible.

Consider, long ago (surely, no one would do anything like this in this post-modern era) a parent who is beating a child as punishment for breaking some rule, and consider the parent saying to the child being beaten (I absolutely oppose beating children of any age), "This hurts me more than it hurts you."

Of course, the child finds what the parent says to be absurd. Only, the parent who is beating a child because, as a child, the parent was similarly beaten, is telling a vividly terrible truth in saying, "This hurts me more than it hurts you."

Whaaaaattt???

It works like this. The parent who was beaten as a child and who has become a parent beating a child is put into very painful flashbacks of being beaten, somewhere inside, remembers regarding being told by a parent, "This hurts me more than it hurts you," remembers thinking that being told that was being told nonsense, and yet finds. as a parent, being able to find no alternative to child beating. The parent has the remembered (flashback) pain, the pain of remembering what was said being nonsense, the pain of having no alternative to saying nonsense, and the pain of inflicting pain on a child, all of which combined pain is more pain than the child being beaten experiences while being beaten.

So, when someone shows up here in the role of an "internet troll," what the person posts is likely to be a very indirectly told form of truth, and may be so indirect as to be undecipherable and incomprehensible to the person posting as to anyone else who reads such a post.

Alas. "troll postings" can be very, very destructive to "Internet communities" like this one.

So, I leave to the administrators to decide who does or does not "belong" here, and what posts are properly deleted or allowed to stay.

And I do not assume that anyone here is actually dishonest, though I have often observed that being truthful, and/or being truthfully understood, can be astonishingly difficult at times.

[janekane (imported)]

On reading through this thread one more time, something caught my attention, the first sentence of the initial post, to wit:

Actually there is no real right or wrong as it is subjective.

If that statement really is right, then it is not subjective, because it would be an objective fact that

there is no real right or wrong as it is subjective;

and the statement contradicts itself.

Why, why, did I study philosophy as a college student; why did I take a philosophy class in formal logic?

Why, why, why, did I learn to design digital logic circuits that actually worked; as doing that required that I understand formal logic way beyond what I learned in that philosophy logic class...

[Wolf-Pup (imported)]

But each person's point of view shades their perceptions. My wanting to tread cautiously with newcomers to the site may be vastly different than another senior member's approach. To ourselves what we think is the right course of action to help the newbie may seem completely wrong to the other person.

Some people may think jumping into a chemical castration trial is the best thing to do in all situations, I would think that is wrong. However who is to say for certain as we aren't doctors. I'm more interested in learning as much about the person as possible before suggesting methods. If it is a woman/wife/girlfriend/boyfriend/husband/man asking in terms of another person, then it is even more crucial to find out all we can about the situation they are in, and proceed accordingly.

[Riverwind (imported)]

I think by telling someone to go chemical first there is the implied suggesting that it would be to go to a doctor for the shot/pill, and in doing so that doctor would recommend a councilor of some sort.

We have a thread with information on how to inject your balls with acids to kill them, the warnings in that first post have not slowed it down.

I guess from my point of view, a person or persons will do what they want to achieve their goals.

If you want to be castrated or your spouse wants you to be, see a doctor, have him/her do the job, its an operation, surgery, this is not something to screw with.

Do it right, take castration on a test drive, do chemical castration first.

Will this advice be taken, I take you back to the longest running thread on this site.

WARNING - People die doing this, even in the best of conditions.

How is that for a disclaimer?

River