http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-iaqQ-m ... re=related

Some may see this as a redneck message but, I don't. It represents the feelings of the typical Confederate soldier in late 1865.

The song sounds OK, I get the lyrics and all that, but no, I personally do not like it one damn bit. I do consider myself a true redneck, so I can understand how this sort of music appeals to some, but it seems very contradictory to me: first we see the rebel flag with the words "Heritage not hate" emblazoned over it, then we hear the lyrics "I hate the yankee nation..." So much for "heritage not hate."

I suppose that my own feelings towards the "rebel" and southern culture are a bit more extreme and bitter than most others here. That is because I was stationed in Augusta, Georgia for three horrid years, I saw first hand the hypocracy of "southern culture." When I finally left Georgia, I really wished that General William T. Sherman could be brought back to do some more marching over Georgia.

I could list a lot of my personal reasons for so hating the south, but they are just based on my own personal experiences and I would not ask someone else to "do my hating for me," so if you love the "rebel culture" and you actually believe that "heritage not hate" slogan, well go right ahead. If the south were to secede and re-form the old Confederacy, I for one would NOT object nor offer any fight against their independance from the U.S. just so long as Arizona was NOT a part of the Confederacy.

MacTheWolf (imported) wrote: Wed Jun 17, 2009 10:21 pm http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=

A2F-drjUwNU&feature=related

The C.S.A. and "The War Between The States" did yield

better music, lore, heroes, historians and authors then the Yankees.

The link at the thread start of course is not an anthem but, a folk song written after the War Between The States.

The abolition of slavery was not the initial issue. The initial issues were the preservation of the union and the expansion of slavery to the western territories. Oh and of course those nasty economic ones.

The agricultural south was becoming a virtual colony of the north and their mercantile practices of purchasing raw goods from the south and then selling to the south the manufactured products. So the balance of money flowed north. Helped by, Northern Supported tariffs - taxes on trade. So although the southern planter could get a better deal trading with England, with the added tax / tariff it was not an option.

Jefferson, Washington, and those Southern planters of the Revolutionary War times had similar debt problems. The joke being Patrick Henry really wanted, Give Me Freedom From By Debts, Or Give Me Death.

Point of History: Do Not Balance The Economy To Force The Southern Planter Into Debt, Unless You Want A War.

I never enjoyed the study of "The War Between The States" until the Ken Burns special on the same subject, titled, "The Civil War". It is a really sad war as I guess civil wars tend to be and more Americans were killed in that war then any other American war. Afterward, the Federal system was one nation indivisible and reference by speechafiers changed from

"These United States" to "The United States". The country boy from Iowa marching through Tennessee witnessed, one nation. Men saw the nation from beyond their own county. Big change in the American psyche.

It is has been called the last great Anglo-Saxon / Celtic war.

Look at the faces. Look at the faces of Jefferson Davis and Abraham Lincoln. See the prominent nose, hollow cheeks and prominent cheek bones. These are Celtic features quite common from the Scot / Irish immigration to America that tended toward the west and the south

as in Katie Scarlett O'Hara.

This gene pool was considerably reduced - almost genocide as the celtic men in the west fought for both north and south. The white American face changes shape afterward. Aided by the German immigration. So it literally reshaped the "face of America".

Spike Lee made a fun movie, CSA. About if the South won.

Now watch Gone With The Wind.

Curiously, after war was over, and with competent management, agriculture was again economically viable in the south. If the southerners had, as Washington did, emancipated their slaves, history would have been very different. Jackson would have had no call to institute genocide against the Cherokee for their lands to keep the disgusting mess of the south functioning; Polk might never have begun a war with Mexico for more cotton land, and Jackson's feeble efforts to salvage the inept economy of the south by destabilizing the Bank of the United States would never have come about, and with it the regular cycles of depression that began with Jackson's successor, Martin van Buren, and culminated with the Great Depression. Jefferson, Monroe, and Madison each toyed with the idea of emanicipation, but upon reflection abandoned the idea because it was economically ruinous. Madison refused to emanicpate his slaves because "Dolley would live in penury." However, he forgot that Dolley was raised as a Quaker, and after his death, she emancipated them anyway and died in poverty.

Romanticizing the South is rather like romanticizing Al Qaeda; their goals were the same: the destruction of the democratic government of the United States, and every god damned southern hero had the same object as the Taliban jihadists, killing Americans.

The most pathetic thing in American history is how the south has been permitted rewrite and coopt their treason against the United States.

Interesting takes on the War of Northern Aggression.

History is written by the victor and the North is still bitching.

[quote="MacTheWolf (imported)"

moi621 (imported) wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2009 12:26 am time=1245241260]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=

A2F-drjUwNU&feature=related

The C.S.A. and "The War Between The States" did yield

better mus
[/quote]
ic, lore, heroes, historians and authors then the Yankees...

olleyes:

I beg to differ in re the music of the Civil War. The North won the music battle hands down.

My Dad, the Spanish-born and raised Super American, made certain that my sister and I got the Full Monty when it came to America's military history, to include the music associated therewith.

The South had some great ditties, to be sure, such as "Lorena"; "The Bonnie Blue Flag", and a few others.

Before you say "Hey! What about 'Dixie'?" you should know that "Dixie" was written BEFORE the war by a Northerner. It was written for a minstrel show.

On the Blue side, the songs are many and often inspirational. To name a few...

"Battle Hymn Of The Republic"

"Just Before The Battle, Mother"

"Marching Through Georgia"

"Year Of Jubilo"

"We're Tenting Tonight (On The Old Camp Ground)"

"The Empty Chair" (I can't hear it without weeping, same as "Just Before The Battle, Mother")

"Aura Lee" AKA West Point's "Army Blue", AKA Elvis's "Love Me Tender", AKA San Antonio Douglas MacArthur High School's "In Halls Of Honor". (My Alma Mater.)

"Battle Cry Of Freedom" AKA "Rally 'Round The Flag"

My dad loves to remind all that President Lincoln, upon hearing of Lee's surrender, ordered the military bands in Washington D.C. to play "Dixie", to both honor the South and begin the healing process.

I may be a slightly warped female but I know a thing or two about the Civil War. BG made certain that I was educated on the subject too, filling in any gaps Dad missed, especially as it relates to Cavalry operations and the ascendancy of the Union Cavalry as the war progressed.

Make no mistake; BG is a true Gentleman Of The South but he'd wear the Union Blue should the need arise. He idolizes Philip Sheridan almost so much as he does The University of Oklahoma Football Program,

Yoli

The Little Trooperette in San Antonio

Mon Chere Yolette

SVP

Link moi to a Union Blue tune that sounds hip and jazzy like my side's.

If your Dad is into that dirge sound of the North, he must love Mahler too.

Gareth, it is not romanticizing the South to understand the problems that led to

moi621 (imported) wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2009 12:26 am the War Between The States. The

total abolition of slavery was not an expressed aim of the North until the second year of the war. There is too much romanticizing Lincoln and the North that has created the artificial truth by the rabid retelling of the falsehood that; it began over the total abolition of slavery. Follow the dollar. The Yankees were bleeding the south for decades.

Also, consider the South was mostly populated by Scot-Irish, a stubborn group that does not appreciate central authority, and their decedents who ran away from the dominion of a central authority, England. The Yankee of the North East tended to be Anglo-Saxon, doing their traditional thing of trying to dominate the Celt / Kelt and the C / K not being too happy about it. Another take I have read.

Study History in the first person, present tense from different points of view.

Moi

moi621 (imported) wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2009 8:40 pm Mon Chere Yolette

SVP

Link moi to a Union Blue tune that sounds hip and jazzy like my side's.

If your Dad is into that dirge sound of the North, he must love Mahler too.

Moi

Moi(sture),

I don't understand how you can equate "Marching Through Georgia", "Year Of Jubilo", or "Battle Cry Of Freedom" to a dirge. They are brisk and uplifting ditties and there's a bit of humor in "Jubilo".

I respectfully suggest all who are interested in this thread drop over to YouTube and listen to the aforementioned then judge for yourselves if those songs are "dirges".

For that matter, the revered CSA song "Lorena" was so heartrending that some Southern commanders forbade the playing or singing thereof because it triggered desertions among homesick soldiers.

Even "Yellow Rose Of Texas", a tune brought into the CSA repertoire, some say, by Gen. John Bell Hood's Texans, caused some midnight departures by soldiers longing for home and loved ladies.

Yoli

Another Rose in Texas...with thorns.

PS: MORE KAWFEEEEEE! (and a Bismarck or a trio of Beignets would be nice too, please.)

I yield the music but not the cause of Federalism

to Yolette's Her-story and superior knowledge of music.