Eunuchs in ancient times

[marcialou (imported)]

Hi,

I'm writing a piece of fiction about ancient Persia, a time and place where eunuchs were created for the purpose of guarding the royal women and performing many other domestic tasks. Some may have become scribes or held positions of responsibilty in the government. Does anyone have any information on eunuchs in ancient history?

Thanks,

Marcia

[kristoff]

At the risk of being insulting, my first response is to suggest you stop being a lazy writer and do your research instead of asking everyone else to do it. There are numerous books on topic, likely available in your local library, or nearby university library, to say nothing of materials on the internet. If after doing your essential, basic research, you have specific questions, then ask them - there are a few folks here who do have some expertise on the topic, historically.

[moi621 (imported)]

Check out, "The Physician" by Noah Gordon.

He describes what went on to create modified men for

harem duty, and how far the modification need go

depending on being stationed, outside or inside with the ladies.

After surgery, urination was aided with a quill.

[marcialou (imported)]

Thanks. Will do.

[JesusA (imported)]

I would have been a bit gentler than Kristoff, but he has it basically right. You need to do a bit of research FIRST, before you begin asking questions. Eunuchs held a very wide variety of positions in the various kingdoms and empires of the ancient Near East. Harem duty was only a very small part of it. Military officers and government administrators were often eunuchs – mostly eunuchs in some times and places. I could probably write 30 to 40 pages of detailed information off the top of my head (mostly with proper academic citations from memory), but I'm not about to try to tackle something this broad.

Check out the many posts on the Non-Fiction board here on the Archive. Do a bit of web research (not trusting Wikipedia or other non-academic sources too much). THEN you'll be equipped to ask more specific questions which someone here can probably answer easily.

[marcialou (imported)]

Jesus,

Thanks for the tip. I did look for some non-fiction articles on your site before I submitted the question but I couldn't find any. Now I see that 5 pertinent articles are linked at the bottom of the page, including several of yours. I've started reading them.

I've seen some sources that say that the vast majority of Persian eunuchs were conquered subjects and could not have risent to positions of responsibility. Like you, I had been under the impression that some eunuchs *did* rise to high ranks so I have been looking for some evidence of this. A little piece of my plot depends on it.

I'll read the Eunuchs in Power article and the rest tomorrow and ask more specific questions later.

Thanks,

Marcia

[JesusA (imported)]

I've seen some sources that say that the vast majority of Persian eunuchs were conquered subjects and could not have risen to positions of responsibility.

On the other hand, the eunuchs were ripped from their natal families and support network. They were castrated so that they could produce no descendants. Their only loyalty was perceived to be toward their ruler and their new colleagues in the administration. This made them more loyal and much more deserving of advancement than natives who were concerned about supporting kinsmen....

[transward (imported)]

Another role eunuchs played in ancient times was as priests in many of the religions. From Egypt and Sumeria on religions often contained gods castrated to ensure the fertility of the fields. A good place to research this is Frazier' The Golden Bough. Male followers would re-enact this in wild orgiastic celebrations. A historian describes them thusly "in Babylon an annual ritual involved young men slicing off their own genitals, including the penis, and flinging these into nearby houses as they ran bleeding and in great pain through the streets of the city. In return for this sacrifice women's clothes were handed them and thereafter they spent their time at female tasks." I often wonder why they didn't bleed to death. Often these priests worked as trans temple prostitutes. The Roman poet Catullus describes in his famous poem #63 a young follower awakening the next morning to grieve his nullifying himself in a wild orgy the night before. I have often wondered why the EA story archive has so many stories of castrated harem guards, and so few of castrated priests. I would think Catullus' poem would make a great place to start.

Transward

[FianceeUvBigGuy (imported)]

MarciaLou,

Some of my early education (and prurient kicks:D) came via reading already published works. I recommend the following:

"Byzantium" (I can't recall the author and my copy is lent.)

"The Persian Boy" by Mary Renault (she made cute cars too;) )

Of the two, the latter deals more with Alex T. Great and his doings re war and sex while the former reveals far more re the inner workings of the Byzantine empire and the role of castration as an avenue to advancement, creation of eunuchs for sex play, and as a punitive measure.

Should someone recommend "Cry To Heaven" by Anne Rice be aware that it deals purely with Italian boys castrated to preserve their soprano voices, not the era to which you refer. Lots of sex, though, between eunuchs and women...eunuchs and intact men...and eunuchs with eunuchs. Hot stuff.

Frankly, there seems to be more than enough already published on the topic but another is always welcome.

BTW, I am a genetic female, bisexual (the Lipstick Lesbian type, not at all butch,) with what I admit is a "Castration Fascination". I personally know four castrated individuals and am intimate with two of them...what fun! I am a member of a group of like-minded females and we meet often to discuss and have "Show and tell" with the persons mentioned above.

I cannot invite Private Messaging, sad to say, since my time is limited and my "PM Pal Dance Card" is full...with a whole TWO members Still, if I can assist in some meaningful way you may address that here in open forum and I'll do what I can.

And now, ladies and genitals, I'm off to (are you sitting down?) a prayer breakfast!

Luv and Luck to all,

Yoli

Certifiably Fun chica in San Antonio

[marcialou (imported)]

Hi Folks,

You've given me a lot to read and think about. Let me tell you a little more about my project.

My novel in progress is a retelling of the Book of Esther from the Hebrew Bible. The main characters are not eunuchs but Hegai, "keeper of the women" is an important secondary character. To develop him as a character and understand who his friends might be I need to know where he comes from, what the circumstances were in his becoming a euncuch, how old he was when he was castrated, what his social status is, whether he dresses as a man, woman, or eunuch, what kind of intimate relations he is capable and desirous of, what he looks like as eunuch and more. When I say "know" I mean I'm going to make it up based on research.

Eunuchs in ancient history is only one of the topics I have been researching. I need to learn about all aspects of the royal court, the status of women, the religions of the time, the rabbinical interpretations of the Esther story, marriage ceremonies, funerals, etc. etc.

Thanks for all your interest and advice. I'll keep you posted as Hegai's biography emerges.

Marcia