Page 5 of 5

Re: The game is up. The Higgs Boson may be revealed

Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 7:40 pm
by Riverwind (imported)
As I said, pie in the sky

River

Re: The game is up. The Higgs Boson may be revealed

Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 8:33 pm
by A-1 (imported)
Slammr (imported) wrote: Fri Jul 06, 2012 7:39 pm Electrons are quantum events and function according to the laws of quantum mechanics not according to the laws of classical mechanics. If not for the knowledge of quantum mechanics, no one would know how to make vacuum tubes even. No one would know how the electron functions or how to utilize it. I will go back to my original statement: without knowledge of quantum mechanics, computers wouldn't exist.

Oh? I don't know about that. You see, there was the Abacus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abacus) and the Babbage Difference Engine (http://www.computerhistory.org/babbage/). Both were rudimentary computers.

Then, there was the world's FIRST computer... (http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/29/scien ... tecnd.html)or at least it IS to the best of our knowledge...

Got to watch what you say here. History is being revealed by the discovery of objects that we only recently have understood... (http://www.ieeeghn.org/wiki/index.php/Ancient_Computers)

MAKE CLICK HERE... (http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/29/scien ... tecnd.html)

An Ancient Computer Surprises Scientists

By JOHN NOBLE WILFORD

Published: November 29, 2006

A computer in antiquity would seem to be an anachronism, like Athena ordering takeout on her cellphone.

Enlarge This Image

School of Physics and Astronomy, Cardiff University

Fragments of the Antikythera Mechanism, left, have now been examined with the latest in high-resolution imaging systems and three-dimensional X-ray tomography.

Decoding the Ancient Greek Astronomical Calculator Known as the Antikythera Mechanism (Nature)

But a century ago, pieces of a strange mechanism with bronze gears and dials were recovered from an ancient shipwreck off the coast of Greece. Historians of science concluded that this was an instrument that calculated and illustrated astronomical information, particularly phases of the Moon and planetary motions, in the second century B.C.

The Antikythera Mechanism, sometimes called the world’s first computer, has now been examined with the latest in high-resolution imaging systems and three-dimensional X-ray tomography. A team of British, Greek and American researchers was able to decipher many inscriptions and reconstruct the gear functions, revealing, they said, “an unexpected degree of technical sophistication for the period.”

The researchers, led by Tony Freeth and Mike G. Edmunds, both of the University of Cardiff, Wales, are reporting the results of their study in Thursday’s issue of the journal Nature.

They said their findings showed that the inscriptions related to lunar-solar motions and the gears were a mechanical representation of the irregularities of the Moon’s orbital course across the sky, as theorized by the astronomer Hipparchos. They established the date of the mechanism at 150-100 B.C.

The Roman ship carrying the artifacts sank off the island of Antikythera around 65 B.C. Some evidence suggests that the ship had sailed from Rhodes. The researchers speculated that Hipparchos, who lived on Rhodes, might have had a hand in designing the device.

In another article in the journal, a scholar not involved in the research, François Charette of the University of Munich museum, in Germany, said the new interpretation of the Antikythera Mechanism “is highly seductive and convincing in all of its details.” It is not the last word, he concluded, “but it does provide a new standard, and a wealth of fresh data, for future research.”

Historians of technology think the instrument is technically more complex than any known device for at least a millennium afterward.

The mechanism, presumably used in preparing calendars for seasons of planting and harvesting and fixing religious festivals, had at least 30, possibly 37, hand-cut bronze gear-wheels, the researchers reported. An ingenious pin-and-slot device connecting two gear-wheels induced variations in the representation of lunar motions according to the Hipparchos model of the Moon’s elliptical orbit around Earth.

The functions of the mechanism were determined by the numbers of teeth in the gears. The 53-tooth count of certain gears, the researchers said, was “powerful confirmation of our proposed model of Hipparchos’ lunar theory.”

The detailed imaging revealed more than twice as many inscriptions as had been recognized from earlier examinations. Some of these appeared to relate to planetary as well as lunar motions. Perhaps, the researchers said, the mechanism also had gearings to predict the positions of known planets.

Dr. Charette noted that more than 1,000 years elapsed before instruments of such complexity are known to have re-emerged. A few artifacts and some Arabic texts suggest that simpler geared calendrical devices had existed, particularly in Baghdad around A.D. 900.

It seems clear, Dr. Charette said, that “much of the mind-boggling technological sophistication available in some parts of the Hellenistic and Greco-Roman world was simply not transmitted further,” adding, “The gear-wheel, in this case, had to be reinvented.”

Gotta watch what you say...

Re: The game is up. The Higgs Boson may be revealed

Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 9:30 pm
by transward (imported)
Slammr (imported) wrote: Fri Jul 06, 2012 7:39 pm Electrons are quantum events and function according to the laws of quantum mechanics not according to the laws of classical mechanics. If not for the knowledge of quantum mechanics, no one would know how to make vacuum tubes even. No one would know how the electron functions or how to utilize it. I will go back to my original statement: without knowledge of quantum mechanics, computers wouldn't exist.

Actually the earliest vacuum tubes came first: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crookes_tube

A Crookes tube is an early experimental electrical discharge tube, invented by English physicist William Crookes[1] and others around 1869-1875,[2] in which cathode rays, streams of electrons, were discovered.[3

Developed from the earlier Geissler tube, it consists of a partially evacuated glass container of various shapes, with two metal electrodes, one at either end. When a high voltage is applied between the electrodes, cathode rays (electrons) travel in straight lines from the cathode to the anode. It was used by Crookes, Johann Hittorf, Juliusz Plücker, Eugen Goldstein, Heinrich Hertz, Philipp Lenard and others to discover the properties of cathode rays,

Quantum Mechanics was formulated in the first decade of the 20th century, partly to explain the behavior of those cathode rays discovered by those tubes, and to explain the "black body radiation problem" related to boiling electrons off the cathode in those tubes.

Tramsward

Re: The game is up. The Higgs Boson may be revealed

Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 9:59 pm
by Slammr (imported)
transward (imported) wrote: Fri Jul 06, 2012 9:30 pm Actually the earliest vacuum tubes came first: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crookes_tube

Quantum Mechanics was formulated in the first decade of the 20th century, partly to explain the behavior of those cathode rays discovered by those tubes, and to explain the "black body radiation problem" related to boiling electrons off the cathode in those tubes.

Tramsward

Should I have said useful vacuum tubes that would do actual work? I doubt without understanding quantum mechanics they would have come up with any electronic computer made with vacuum tubes, integrated circuits or transistors. I'm through with the nit picking. I'm through responding to this thread.

Re: The game is up. The Higgs Boson may be revealed

Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 10:26 pm
by transward (imported)
Slammr (imported) wrote: Fri Jul 06, 2012 9:59 pm Should I have said useful vacuum tubes that would do actual work? I doubt without understanding quantum mechanics they would have come up with any electronic computer made with vacuum tubes, integrated circuits or transistors. I'm through with the nit picking. I'm through responding to this thread.

Sorry, one of my majors was history, (back in the dark ages) and I'm a little compulsive-obsessive about details. And you are of course right. Technology is a synergistic affair. You can't trace developments in a serial linear way. The early tubes were curiosities, revealing a new form of radiation. To explain it a new theory was developed, which led to improvements in the tubes and discoveries to make the curiosities useful, which leads to new theories and so on and so on. My apologies, I wasn't criticizing you. You are usually one of the most rational people around this place.

All of modern science is like Newton said, "If I see further than other men, it is because I stand on the shoulders of giants."

Transward

Re: The game is up. The Higgs Boson may be revealed

Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 10:33 pm
by A-1 (imported)
...if I can see further than Larry it is because I am standing on the head of Moe...

N'Yuk, N'Yuk, N'Yuk...

A-1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5g7_2ThvEE0)