Re: censorship
Posted: Sat Nov 25, 2006 11:09 pm
Alright, this has gone far enough.
I see no other alternative but to step in here, at the risk of stomping of someone’s toes. <joke>Be warned, MY boots are steel-toed and shiny black leather. Any and all of those types, feel free to kiss them and/or worship.</joke>
This whole thread is the result of a misunderstanding of a technical issue, combined with the call made by the (at the time) only fully active Moderator on the Boards. Stress is common to all of us. How we all deal with surprises is greatly affected by it. Bob’s initial post obviously came as a surprise. Was it dealt with? Yes. Was it dealt with WELL?
No.
Sorry, but it wasn’t. Had it been, this thread would not exist.
To my knowledge, something like this has been presented to the Archive before. Back in the day, when we realized that the initial server was in trouble, there was great debate on whether or not to ask – on the Boards – for donations to help ourselves. What did we do? Pay the bill ourselves, or give up? We finally decided to ask for help, but for the Archive Itself, and not for an individual member. It was a monumental move, trust me. I was there.
Is there a difference? Yes. While the Archive continues, Rick and Co. do not – so to speak.
L.T., call it what you will. You clearly show us your passion. That is not a fault. The old saying goes, “The truth is not kind.” Yes, sometimes it isn’t. But as I have said, what happened was a misunderstanding. Krister thought that his explanation would be visible to all viewers; it was NOT. Had it been, I feel that most of this thread would not have happened as it did.
What we have is a bad case of hard feelings, and that’s an understatement. I, probably Krister as well, cannot comprehend what Rick and his family are enduring. Those closer to them can. I can sympathize, but I cannot KNOW. Can Bob and L.T. know? Do they? I feel that they do, from the passion of their posts. Is anger on either side justified? Yes it is. But understanding from both sides is also expected.
I had access to the initial post. At first read, yes, I probably would have said something, and done much the same thing as Krister did. Part of his suggestion was to contact Bob privately. THIS IS A GOOD IDEA for those who wish to help. No one is asking you to help – technically – you are being informed. If you can, and if you wish to, then DO. If you do not, then move on around the Boards and don’t throw any more gas on the fire. It’s as simple as that.
While I have not been active in some time here, and there will be those who are offended by my impromptu return to active duty, I have to agree with L.T. on this. I am still available online via email and Messengers. I do get email, still. And I am growing concerned with Kimmel. I am VERY concerned, also, as it would seem that this is déjà vu – Spector – all over again, and very soon. Some months ago, I started the thread, sticky, on doctors, etc. This from TWO (2) emails I received at that time on near bleed-outs that required ER treatment to repair Kimmel’s work.
HOWEVER, at this time, Kimmel is a valid MD and legal. And he is just about the only one to be found. I do NOT claim that Rick is unsafe. I do not know Rick. I also do not know Shannon’s feelings on this. If it comes down to brass tacks, then Shannon should – and MUST – post his feelings on this. It is only through his graciousness that we (the Archive) exists. However, I must repeat my personal worry over Kimmel; I would not go to him, even if I had the downtime time and the money. Who else is there? And to head this one off, I am not in – say – L.T.’s past situation; nor is he in mine. But I sympathize. I expect the same in return. But personally, I do not endorse Kimmel. I HAVE called his office and spoken to them. The verbal communication frightened me. Were I in office management, everyone I spoke to would have been fired RIGHT THEN and THERE.
And hopefully it is one that we can resolve.
We must have understanding here, in all aspects mentioned in this thread so far.
I do not personally endorse cutters, no matter how advanced they are. But I also do not condone someone who is running up a track record like Kimmel is.
As I said, I do not doubt this. I feel we should and MUST hear from Shannon.
L.T. – and anyone else who feels this way – you have every right to feel as you do. But before anyone lets his/her/its passion run away with them, do stop for just a moment. Bring us your thoughts. You provide a balance when you do.
No one is going to be banned for this thread. No one is going to be stopped for speaking out on it. No is going to be stopped for placing trust in L.T. or Bob or even Shannon if they feel that they can help. Nowhere in this thread NOW does it say “send money to me for ________.” But I am sure you get the hint. If you can, I repeat, and feel obligated to investigate the matter further, DO.
When I announced that I was indefinitely – and maybe permanently – leaving, my post at that time clarified my concerns. I see nothing has changed much. I am saddened by this.
I spent a lot of hours with Bboy on long nights with the EA when he finally took us on as a Staff. The site has evolved since then, vastly. I saw, some short time ago, a pending implosion. I still see it coming.
I see only Krister and occasionally Flo doing Board moderation. I see Political Posts (another can of worms) running amok. I see hard feelings, and lack of understanding. I can fully understand any newcomer being terrified of this Board as it is.
And looking back, I can see my own faults.
They are numerous.
EA is not mine.
It is not IEunuch’s, per say.
It is not Talula’s.
It is OURS.
And we must realize and correct our failings before this site DOES implode.
All of this goes back to tolerance, which we scream about in sexuality, religion, politics, etc. And yet we are ALL – every one of us – intolerant. We need one another to provide balance and understanding.
I see no other alternative but to step in here, at the risk of stomping of someone’s toes. <joke>Be warned, MY boots are steel-toed and shiny black leather. Any and all of those types, feel free to kiss them and/or worship.</joke>
Losethem (imported) wrote: Sat Nov 25, 2006 9:34 pm What all of you are failing to see is that there is a MARKED difference between asking for assistance to help these folks now that they have been charged with a crime than there is for letting them advertise their services out in the open. This wasn't an advertisement for services, this was a plea to help the entire family that lived in that household. The police didn't just arrest the so-called cutter, they arrested and charged equally everyone living in the household.
This whole thread is the result of a misunderstanding of a technical issue, combined with the call made by the (at the time) only fully active Moderator on the Boards. Stress is common to all of us. How we all deal with surprises is greatly affected by it. Bob’s initial post obviously came as a surprise. Was it dealt with? Yes. Was it dealt with WELL?
No.
Sorry, but it wasn’t. Had it been, this thread would not exist.
To my knowledge, something like this has been presented to the Archive before. Back in the day, when we realized that the initial server was in trouble, there was great debate on whether or not to ask – on the Boards – for donations to help ourselves. What did we do? Pay the bill ourselves, or give up? We finally decided to ask for help, but for the Archive Itself, and not for an individual member. It was a monumental move, trust me. I was there.
Is there a difference? Yes. While the Archive continues, Rick and Co. do not – so to speak.
Losethem (imported) wrote: Sat Nov 25, 2006 9:34 pm No, I feel quite justified in my anger at the arbitrary censorship of the message. As I've said previously, I usually keep my mouth shut at the unbelievable stuff the archive staff does, but this time I'm not shutting up, even if it costs me my access to the site.
L.T., call it what you will. You clearly show us your passion. That is not a fault. The old saying goes, “The truth is not kind.” Yes, sometimes it isn’t. But as I have said, what happened was a misunderstanding. Krister thought that his explanation would be visible to all viewers; it was NOT. Had it been, I feel that most of this thread would not have happened as it did.
What we have is a bad case of hard feelings, and that’s an understatement. I, probably Krister as well, cannot comprehend what Rick and his family are enduring. Those closer to them can. I can sympathize, but I cannot KNOW. Can Bob and L.T. know? Do they? I feel that they do, from the passion of their posts. Is anger on either side justified? Yes it is. But understanding from both sides is also expected.
I had access to the initial post. At first read, yes, I probably would have said something, and done much the same thing as Krister did. Part of his suggestion was to contact Bob privately. THIS IS A GOOD IDEA for those who wish to help. No one is asking you to help – technically – you are being informed. If you can, and if you wish to, then DO. If you do not, then move on around the Boards and don’t throw any more gas on the fire. It’s as simple as that.
Losethem (imported) wrote: Sat Nov 25, 2006 9:34 pm I will not sit by and watch the staff support Kimmel while they censor us trying to help the family involved in the case here. Especially when Kimmel should be shut down for his lack of sterile procedure. You allow advertising ad-infinitem for Kimmel's services even though he jeopardizes people more than the person we are trying to help. Kimmel is known to pick up dirty instruments from the floor and keep using them as if they came out of a sterile package - the person we're trying to help immediately disposed of any instrument that touched outside the sterile field for even 1/10th of a second.
While I have not been active in some time here, and there will be those who are offended by my impromptu return to active duty, I have to agree with L.T. on this. I am still available online via email and Messengers. I do get email, still. And I am growing concerned with Kimmel. I am VERY concerned, also, as it would seem that this is déjà vu – Spector – all over again, and very soon. Some months ago, I started the thread, sticky, on doctors, etc. This from TWO (2) emails I received at that time on near bleed-outs that required ER treatment to repair Kimmel’s work.
HOWEVER, at this time, Kimmel is a valid MD and legal. And he is just about the only one to be found. I do NOT claim that Rick is unsafe. I do not know Rick. I also do not know Shannon’s feelings on this. If it comes down to brass tacks, then Shannon should – and MUST – post his feelings on this. It is only through his graciousness that we (the Archive) exists. However, I must repeat my personal worry over Kimmel; I would not go to him, even if I had the downtime time and the money. Who else is there? And to head this one off, I am not in – say – L.T.’s past situation; nor is he in mine. But I sympathize. I expect the same in return. But personally, I do not endorse Kimmel. I HAVE called his office and spoken to them. The verbal communication frightened me. Were I in office management, everyone I spoke to would have been fired RIGHT THEN and THERE.
Losethem (imported) wrote: Sat Nov 25, 2006 9:34 pm Shame that a hack (Kimmel) gets so much support from the community but someone that knows more about what they are doing cannot - only because he didn't have MD after his name. It's a shame we cannot even put out a plea to help in a case where people are being charged with an archaic 1754 law. Yes, you read that right 1754... pre-US independence from Great Britain. They have been charged under an old colonial law.
It's a clear double-standard.
And hopefully it is one that we can resolve.
We must have understanding here, in all aspects mentioned in this thread so far.
I do not personally endorse cutters, no matter how advanced they are. But I also do not condone someone who is running up a track record like Kimmel is.
Losethem (imported) wrote: Sat Nov 25, 2006 9:34 pm And before you throw in the whole "Shannon wouldn't approve" argument again... he offered to help out. I just didn't take him up on it at the time because I didn't think there was any way that enough support could come from him and the BME folks to possibly post the bond.
As I said, I do not doubt this. I feel we should and MUST hear from Shannon.
Losethem (imported) wrote: Sat Nov 25, 2006 9:34 pm Nope, I feel justified in my disgust with the EA staff. NO explanation needed from the archive staff as they are behaving in typical ivory tower fashion. Sometimes I wish there was an alternative site but apparently that is not to be. Alas, I come here because there is no alternative.
L.T. – and anyone else who feels this way – you have every right to feel as you do. But before anyone lets his/her/its passion run away with them, do stop for just a moment. Bring us your thoughts. You provide a balance when you do.
No one is going to be banned for this thread. No one is going to be stopped for speaking out on it. No is going to be stopped for placing trust in L.T. or Bob or even Shannon if they feel that they can help. Nowhere in this thread NOW does it say “send money to me for ________.” But I am sure you get the hint. If you can, I repeat, and feel obligated to investigate the matter further, DO.
When I announced that I was indefinitely – and maybe permanently – leaving, my post at that time clarified my concerns. I see nothing has changed much. I am saddened by this.
I spent a lot of hours with Bboy on long nights with the EA when he finally took us on as a Staff. The site has evolved since then, vastly. I saw, some short time ago, a pending implosion. I still see it coming.
I see only Krister and occasionally Flo doing Board moderation. I see Political Posts (another can of worms) running amok. I see hard feelings, and lack of understanding. I can fully understand any newcomer being terrified of this Board as it is.
And looking back, I can see my own faults.
They are numerous.
EA is not mine.
It is not IEunuch’s, per say.
It is not Talula’s.
It is OURS.
And we must realize and correct our failings before this site DOES implode.
All of this goes back to tolerance, which we scream about in sexuality, religion, politics, etc. And yet we are ALL – every one of us – intolerant. We need one another to provide balance and understanding.