The Northwest Ordinance of 1787 provided a means to establish and operate schools. The Ordnance preceded the United States Constitution. It was progressive and democratic. If I recall correctly, part of each group of land grants included land for schools and to be sold to build schools.

Letters from family members during the Civil War are highly literate.

Some of my ancestors were apparently schooled in England well into the 19th century. My grandmother attended a private academy. My father attended a publc college preparatory school.

I taught in New Orleans and the descriptions here are just off base. I encountered highly motivated and capable students.

My experience in Baton Rouge in Teacher Corps was mixed. Careerism did impact teaching and political factors played in recent decades though not in Teacher Corps.

My former wife was a teacher in Baton Rouge, Portland, Oregon, and New Orleans. I got a good view of education and the views voiced here were not our experience, though I do know that discouraged students were a problem in all of these places.

Blaming students and teachers seems cheap shots.

It's all Pink Floyd's fault...that kinky sex and acid...might I suggest a proper flogging to stimulate the educational process?

I'll handle the leash if I could,(has to be a thin dog lead) I'm willing to be thorough and completely brutal, with a bit of ritual mixed in. It would really help getting rid of the pent up agressions.

naughty boy

chilli-

chilliwilli (imported) wrote: Tue Sep 16, 2008 11:16 am It's all Pink Floyd's fault...that kinky sex and acid...might I suggest a proper flogging to stimulate the educational process?

I'll handle the leash if I could,(has to be a thin dog lead) I'm willing to be thorough and completely brutal, with a bit of ritual mixed in. It would really help getting rid of the pent up agressions.

naughty boy

chilli-

I had friend who loved Pink Floyd. He and his friends drove off a clift on Mount Hood on a New Year's Eve. People always complain about youth, but the youth always replace the generation that comes earlier. Just the way it is.

I was a good teacher. I had a lot of potential. One the National Teacher Exam, I even scored in the top one percentile. I found careerism, local politics, and outright discrimination at play in Teacher Corps. I found the school board where I taught unprofessional in the sense that avoiding integration (this was in 1971-72) was the primary goal of the program and the board, even though they did expose me to some wonderful notion about and methods of teaching. I never regretted leaving the field without obtaining my masters or certification. I had only two courses left to complete when I did leave.

My former wife worked hard. She was a successful teacher. She is probably a near genius. I admired and respected her work. But I never really envied her.

Testing is a means to an end. Scores are not the objectives one attains but measure of attainment, but the way that business people measure education turns

this around.

When my father was a student in high school, high school teachers earned a professional wage. Teachers in this region do not receive a professional salary.

I have never seen an innovative school, but I have read about them. All of us earn best by doing. I have yet to see a school that teaches this way.

I once used Pink Floyd to demonstrate the importance of math to a Freshman vocational math class who couldn't have cared less until I pointed out that you can't shove 500/channel into 100/watt speakers...

I'm sure Tugon can appreciate that one.

The Principal sure didn't...

The school system in the county in which I grew up lost accreditation less than a month ago. I think that makes it the first or second system in the United States to earn this dubious distinction.

http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/ ... ation.html (http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/ ... ation.html)

Forty-sven years ago, I think that particular school board was about as incompetent as it now is.

Kortpeel (imported) wrote: Tue Sep 16, 2008 3:00 am Darn right it's a social class problem

We all know that kids from a bad background are unlikely to be high achievers. A bad background is one which is unloving and unstable, where reading is unknown, education despised and where conversation is a series of grunts at best and shouted arguments leading to actual physical violence at worst.

Kids from these backgrounds are the ones that Beau Geste is complaining about. To what extent is it the kid’s fault that he cannot keep up with his peers?

Single parent families usually mean an early childhood of deprivation, of going hungry and of going without. And kids have a sense of being underprivileged, of being inferior to others.

They go from childhood to adolescence with this sense. They have little concept of decency, of empathy for others, of personal responsibility. But violence and aggression they do understand. What sort of citizens do they make?

The answer of course is not terribly good ones. They become the criminals, the drunks and dropouts. They are the irresponsible breeders whose own progeny continue the line all too well. They will as like as not spend a goodly part of their lives in jail.

I suspect it would be cost effective to support these kids from an early age – long before they become prison fodder. Establish creches in poor neighbourhoods, adequate welfare grants for single parent families, perhaps a mentoring scheme whereby volunteer ‘uncles’ could spend time with a kid and influence him in the right direction. Even establish boarding schools to keep young teenagers away from bad influences and instil a few middle class values.

As it stands, a lot of kids are condemned to a wasted life from their moment of conception. It is tragic in the worst sense of the word.

Kortpeel.

Quote honestly, blaming it on 'single parent families' alone is the biggest load of crap I've heard in some time.

My dad died when I was quite young, and I was raised in a single-parent family. I still know right from wrong, the value of hard work, personal responsibility, empathy, and decency. I learned a lot from my mother, watching her work two jobs to provide for us, squeeze everything she could from every penny to make it count, and put up with the ignorance of those who look down on, or discriminate against single mothers.

It also fails to describe the problems that arise from living in a two-parent household filled with fighting, anger, abuse and the rest of it.

You cannot tie the lack of ethics and responsibility to single parents. You can, however, tie it to parents in general, society, and the educational system as a whole. Sure, class may play a large role, but there's a lot more than that in play.

When I was growing up, if the teacher complained to a parent that their kid was acting up, mouthing off, etc in class, the parent believed the teacher. These days, ask any parent. Their kids are little freaking angels, and if the teacher says differently, well then the teacher has it out for their kid.

So much emphasis is placed on 'social development' that teachers cannot hold a kid back who can't read or write, or hasn't learned a fucking thing the entire year. That would be bad for the kid's self-esteem. I know a kid with a slight learning problem (mild-moderate Aspergers), who is going into Grade 8 after having missed all of Grade 7, half of Grade 6, and only attending sporadically prior to that. Of course (to hear his mother) it's not his fault, the teachers were out to get him, the kids were teasing him, he has a learning disability, etc etc etc. That attitude, he's completely absorbed.

Rather than lumping all the problems on single-parent families, why not lay the blame on damn near everyone out there today. While I may believe people with more economic security have better access to resources, I don't think that means they have a better work ethic, or better morals and ethics in general.

IE--

I'd agree that the problems in the educational system are complex, and you're right to point out that the disadvantages produced by an environment which discourages education, can be overcome by someone who is highly motivated. At the same time, a lot of people who have every advantage, nevertheless underperform as students and don't have productive careers. I didn't mean to say that there aren't ways to succeed in the educational system, in spite of the low quality of the schools. But I think the fact remains, that if the general attitude toward education in society were changed, the average educational attainment of students would improve dramatically. Look at what has been done in Ireland in the last thirty years.

The Irish, incidentally, claim (with some justificaiton) that, on average, they now speak better English than the English do. There are dozens of web pages on the Internet advertising for people to go to Ireland to learn the English language.

Beau Geste (imported) wrote: Sun Sep 28, 2008 10:39 pm IE--

I'd agree that the problems in the educational system are complex, and you're right to point out that the disadvantages produced by an environment which discourages education, can be overcome by someone who is highly motivated. At the same time, a lot of people who have every advantage, nevertheless underperform as students and don't have productive careers. I didn't mean to say that there aren't ways to succeed in the educational system, in spite of the low quality of the schools. But I think the fact remains, that if the general attitude toward education in society were changed, the average educational attainment of students would improve dramatically. Look at what has been done in Ireland in the last thirty years.

The Irish, incidentally, claim (with some justificaiton) that, on average, they now speak better English than the English do. There are dozens of web pages on the Internet advertising for people to go to Ireland to learn the English language.

Oh, I quite completely agree with you 100%. The importance of getting a good education is absolutely not emphasized enough. If more effort and importance were put into actually teaching kids, and less into social development, sports 'heroes', movie and tv stars, and people like Paris Hilton, we'd get better graduates and have a hope in hell in reversing the dumbing down of society.

If teachers got paid relative to their actual importance, you'd wind up with better teachers, better teaching, and a better end product. Of course, I have no idea where you'd get the 6-figure salaries from.