Are There Any Fully Neuter Persons?

[Beau Geste (imported)]

What raised this question, the other day I was in the bank branch where I used to do most of my banking, and I remebered the security guard who used to work there. The individual was well over sixty years old (I think) and I never really figured out if he or she was a man or a woman. The shirt on the security guard's uniform fit rather loosely, and of course somebody that age would have breasts that were mostly vertical rather than horizontal, so I couldn't tell a gender type by observing breast development, or lack thereof. I don't remember the guard wearing a name badge, and there seemed to be no reason to inquire as to the person's gender. On reflection, I'm reasonably sure that the guard was female, her mannerisms were more or less female, though the face didn't really show a feminine aspect.

But I'm sure that the guard herself/himself had a distinct identity as masculine or feminine, and, thinking about it, I've never encountered, or even heard, about anyone who couldn't be identified as either male or female, or who didn't personally identify as either masculine or feminine. We live in a society in which everybody is expected to opt for one of the two "regular" genders, and, while Jesus and others would argue that there is a wide range of gender types, I still think that every gender type among humans falls on one side of the male-female divide. People always refer to somebody they're describing as either "he" or "she." Most of the archive members who have had orchiectomies seem still to be clearly male in orientation, and usually in appearance. Those who aren't clearly male, have assumed a transsexual identity, the female identity, and any of those members whose photos I have seen, appear distinctly to have developed a female appearance. Those South Asian hijras who have had the surgery to remove their male genitalia, assume female identities and, according to what I have read, are normally described as "she." (Don't know if they change their names to feminine forms.)

Even if somebody wanted to be absolutely neuter, I have to think that the social pressures which are directed toward forcing people into one identity or another, would make it nearly impossible. The fact that every individual is described by a gender-specific pronoun, makes it difficult for anybody to assume a neuter identity. Even if "eunuch" could be listed as a sex, the person who identified himself as a eunuch, would still be treated as male in most respects.

I realize that a small number of people are born without any genitalia, and consequently never develop a personal identity based on the character of their sex organs. But I would think that all of the persons in that condition, develop an identity in which they consider thamselves, and those around them consider them, to belong to one of the two sexes. People, as a social group, aren't psychologically able, in my judgement, to deal with anything but a bipolar society in which there aren't any individuals "in the middle."

On the other hand, when reasonably intelligent robots are developed, I would think they will be thought of and treated as neuter types. We already tend to think of machines with some intelligence-like abilities, as sexually neutral.

[chilliwilli (imported)]

Gender is fluid. Read the posts raging on the Gay/Bi/Trans board in regards to trans people that keep their genitals. I think you would find both support and opposing veiws.

chilli-

[transward (imported)]

I have known several individuals who deliberately set out not to manifest themselves as either of the polar male/female binary, but it was more a reaction to that male/female binary than an absence of sex traits. With robots it would be a complete lack of sex characteristics, with androgynous people, rather than no sexual traits, there is a mixture of male and female sexual traits, bi-gendered rather than a-gendered.

Transward

[streetglide (imported)]

If the security guard had a name tag it would have said "Pat"!

Interesting observation! I worked with a person that I was completely undecided on! Finally one day she went into the female locker room and I used that to base my decision!