Who am I?

[jemagirl (imported)]

When I was in seventh grade, my teacher took me outside class for a talk. He told me that I needed to walk a different way to fit in as one of the boys. He gave a demonstration of proper walking for a guy. I know he meant well but ever since I've got a low level kind of background awareness of how I'm walking. If I don't feel my style is quite right, I'll modify it. I can't believe I've been making these adjustments for decades.

-Danya

I experienced something similar when I was attending camp at Stanford Children's Health Center. Only in my case it was just a comment made by one of the camp consolers to the other consolers about how I moved my hips like a girl when I walked. I don't even know if I was meant to hear it. All I know is it made me very aware of things and how it might not be OK to be myself. Sometimes I wonder who I would be now if I hadn't had to worry about who I was then.

[Danya (imported)]

Turned out I was a slow learner in 7th grade. I couldn't copy my teacher's walk on the first attempt! He had to show me several times. This reinforced my feeling of being different, although he was very kind in the way he approached this.

My parents, and most frequently my mother, would often make comments that I ran like a girl. I had no idea what she meant. I was simply running and having a good time.

Another teacher, 9th or 10th grade, taught my health class. He was adorable with dark hair and in his low 20s. He was also well-built, but I'm getting off topic here I got to class early one day before the other students. So this really handsome man, who I had a crush on, looks at me and says 'It's OK to be different'. I was stunned. I just stared at him. The last thing I wanted to be seen as was different, although I knew I was but I thought I had it well hidden I later viewed his comment as one of the kindest, most understanding things anyone had ever said to me. On one level, he was likely indicating that he, too, was different. Even if that wasn't the case, he was clearly letting me know that I was OK just being myself. He wasn't trying to change my behavior as my 7th grade teacher had done. I wish I knew where that teacher is now so I could thank him.

All of us are OK, and beautiful people, just the way we are, however we identify sexually, in gender expression and other ways of being our true selves. Our greatest gift to people around is to be authentic. Admittedly, this can sometimes be really hard to do.

-Danya

[Danya (imported)]

I want to add here some paraphrased comments from a member I very much admire just as many of you do. I'm referring to Jesus. I'm finding that the longer I know him, the wiser he's becoming Perhaps I'm just learning to listen better. The thing is, he's got a wealth of information on gender issues that extends far beyond his published papers. To top it all off, he genuinely cares for the people on the Archive.

He's mentioned to me that some gender clinics, or at least one in Berkeley, CA, are finding that many men who initially think they are male to female eventually settle into a eunuch identity and are really happy with this. Some have even gone all the way through sexual reassignment surgery to later decide the the eunuch gender id is really who they are. Part of his reason for telling me about these people is a warning to be clear on what I'm doing and I really appreciate that. I am listening. Going through all the stages of transitioning from male to female is time-consuming, expensive and involves a number of painful procedures that one could find unfufilling in the end.

Besides, there are all kinds of gender expressions. It's really quite an amazing thing, this gender stuff!

The process I'm going through now is an exploration of who I am, not a final commitment to anything. Yes, this can involve estrogen for a time. There's no rush for me and I can have fun on the adventure.

-Danya

[mrt (imported)]

From what I've learned there is a standards of care that insists you live female, be on HRT etc before they will consider surgery. I think that in many cases this has a good side because it does force a person to test drive things before expensive and irreversable surgery is done.

I did some surfing on the web and Jesus is correct

there are some people who are

happy in various stages of transition. Some quit at living Fem and on hormones. Some get an orchiectomy (Castration) and quit either on or off hormones. Quite a few that I've read about say its money issues and not a desire for the Eunuch life.

The goal to be male, female, eunuch or some where in between is perhapes not the main goal right now. In any trip I think you have to ponder why you want to get to a particular place and then break out the map and chart your course. The happyness you feel being free(er) from Testosterone is I think a clear indication that your already on the right direction. It might be worth talking to people further down the fem path to see if going beyond that is correct for you or not. Erica Ann perhapes? Or one of the other ladies that might be able to sync up with what your feeling or be able to point out that his is the wrong direction?

Anyway don't let it all make you crazy.

[JesusA (imported)]

The process I'm going through now is an exploration of who I am, not a final commitment to anything. Yes, this can involve estrogen for a time. There's no rush for me and I can have fun on the adventure.

-Danya

Rebecca Auge (http://rebeccaaugephd.blogspot.com/), the Berkeley psychologist, has pointed out many times that there's a vast gender space between "male" and "female." Many people can fit comfortably within this space. As you explore that space, it's best to relax and enjoy the journey.

[Danya (imported)]

MrT,

What I'm finding is, that with some spots on the gender continuum, I need to build a comfort level with a gender expression that has seemed incomprehensible in the past. This actually goes along with my initial reaction to the thought of becoming a eunuch.

When I first met a eunuch for dinner (our dear, beloved, on the path to sainthood Sister Kristoff), I was initially nervous. It was almost as if I were wondering if there existed an etiquette for speaking with eunuchs. How would I pick up on clues as to the right things to say? Would I blurt out something embarrassing? The fact is, we're all humans beings and want to be treated with respect and sensitivity.

Turned out we had a very nice 3-hour long conversation. Our personalities are very different, though, and I had an irrational concern that should I become a eunuch I would somehow morph into Sister II. Not a bad thing at all but just not me. I enjoy Kristoff's personality and humor very much and the contrast with my own makes it even more fun. Now, I'm totally comfortable being around eunuchs.

In a similar way, I need to go through additional mental adjustments to feel comfort with other gender expressions. I view all of this as a result of severe ignorance on my part. As I educate myself, what formerly seemed foreign and strange become more every day types of things.

There are the transgenderists, for instance, who (in men) view themselves as female and wish to modify their bodies, often through the use of hormones and surgery, to reflect a female presentation. They enjoy their male genitals, though, and do not seek out sexual reassignment surgery. For a naive guy like me, who until a few short months ago held to the binary, male or female only, gender view (I was awesomely ignorant), the concept of a transgenderist still seems a bit hard to grasp. Not nearly as difficult as it would have in October, when I started seriously posting on the Archive. On an intellectual level I now get the concept of the transgenderist. I believe that if I have the chance to meet one or more, and I hope I do, I will quickly develop the same sense of comfort I have with eunuchs.

Part of figuring out who I am is becoming comfortable with all the wonderful ways gender can be expressed.

-Danya

[gpb3aol (imported)]

Is Eunuch the space between being Male or Female, or is eunuch one of the many things in the space between Male and Female.

Pauline

[Danya (imported)]

I might give a fairly good answer to your question, Pauline. It think it's best though, that one of the Archive heavy-hitters (e.g., Jesus or Kristoff) provide the details.

Oh, I'll give it a stab and hope others will chime in with corrections or a clear explanation. The term eunuch is essentially the physical description for a genetic male who has no testicles. Sometimes the term may be limited to someone without a penis or to those without both penis and testicles.

For those who consider being eunuch a gender identity, I would say this is one of the possibiities between what we'd view as traditional male and female.

It seems to me that even within a eunuch identity, there are different expressions. Such as use of testosterone, no hormone supplementation or the use of estrogen. I hope one of the folks who really knows this stuff will give a better explanation.

-Danya

[mrt (imported)]

MrT,

What I'm finding is, that with some spots on the gender continuum, I need to build a comfort level with a gender expression that has seemed incomprehensible in the past. This actually goes along with my initial reaction to the thought of becoming a eunuch.

When I first met a eunuch for dinner (our dear, beloved, on the path to sainthood Sister Kristoff), I was initially nervous. It was almost as if I were wondering if there existed an etiquette for speaking with eunuchs. How would I pick up on clues as to the right things to say? Would I blurt out something embarrassing? The fact is, we're all humans beings and want to be treated with respect and sensitivity.

Turned out we had a very nice 3-hour long conversation. Our personalities are very different, though, and I had an irrational concern that should I become a eunuch I would somehow morph into Sister II. Not a bad thing at all but just not me. I enjoy Kristoff's personality and humor very much and the contrast with my own makes it even more fun. Now, I'm totally comfortable being around eunuchs.

In a similar way, I need to go through additional mental adjustments to feel comfort with other gender expressions. I view all of this as a result of severe ignorance on my part. As I educate myself, what formerly seemed foreign and strange become more every day types of things.

There are the transgenderists, for instance, who (in men) view themselves as female and wish to modify their bodies, often through the use of hormones and surgery, to reflect a female presentation. They enjoy their male genitals, though, and do not seek out sexual reassignment surgery. For a naive guy like me, who until a few short months ago held to the binary, male or female only, gender view (I was awesomely ignorant), the concept of a transgenderist still seems a bit hard to grasp. Not nearly as difficult as it would have in October, when I started seriously posting on the Archive. On an intellectual level I now get the concept of the transgenderist. I believe that if I have the chance to meet one or more, and I hope I do, I will quickly develop the same sense of comfort I have with eunuchs.

Part of figuring out who I am is becoming comfortable with all the wonderful ways gender can be expressed.

-Danya

I understand what your saying and I think it was very good that my first meeting with anyone who was a Eunuch was at the MOM meeting. The reason is that there was a cross section of people from one end of the spectrum to the other. Gay, straight, Transexual, even Transexual Lesbian types. I met Military types, Academic types, Motorcycle gang looking types (Sorry IE! ) Star Wars fan types, Comedian types, very old and very young and everything in between types. Crazy left wingers, Crazy right wingers, Non crazy and crazy types We had Canadians, English. There were Eunuchs who seek the Eunuch Calm and Eunuchs who "Mainline" Testosterone to be as male as they can and everything in between. Eunuchs with no HRT, Eunuchs on Testosterone, Eunuchs on Estrogen and some going back and forth. The truly cool thing was how all of these very different people were able to sit down and enjoy each others company. Humm... World leaders?? Maybe you need to get a minor medical procedure??? Or at least a swift kick there...

My point is that there is no rule book (At least mine is lost in the mail) for how to behave as a Eunuch. I'm sure there are those that would love to nail everyone who "is" into a box and limit and define us. Just as they tried to do with Lesbians, Gay men and Transexuals and yes straight white males (At least on TV) which is why its called the idiot box btw....

I enjoy being able to talk to people about this clearly private stuff in an adult and non sexual way but I think its also good that we are able to go about life and not have to be on a soapbox saying "look at me - I'm a Eunuch!!" When I was talking to a couple of surgeons I had some nice emails back and forth with a TS women who said that she was relieved to be done with her own surgery and just wanted to live life as a normal female. And that the TS was going off her signature because the "trans" part was completed.

I've often wondered about the missing members of EA (No pun intended) who seek this and find it then go away. Perhapes some of them are no longer TS and just want to live life without it defining them? I dunno.

[JesusA (imported)]

Even though Pauline’s question hasn’t been fully answered yet, I’ve been reluctant to post anything here that might detract from MRT’s brilliant post on the nature of the eunuch community. He’s captured it perfectly.

For Pauline, though, despite what Freud wrote, a eunuch can most simply be defined as someone who was born with testicles, but for whom they are now non-existant or non-functional. (There are a few complexities that could be added, but they are incredibly rare.)

Eunuchs make up only a small part of that vast diversity of human sex and gender that exists beyond "male" and "female." And, eunuchs alone are incredibly diverse, as MRT so well describes.