Long-sought 'God Particle' cornered

[Dave (imported)]

>>This will be history being made in our time when they actually find it.

>>It will be as big as Einstein's papers, Noyce's computer chip, and these things we type on called computers.

>>And as they say at the end of the article, there will be Nobel Prizes.

>>It's there. They seen it. HOWEVER, being cautious, they need to be very, very, very sure.

>>That means 1 chance in a million of being wrong or more probably 1 chance in a billion of being wrong. AND ALSO, verified by an independent set of researchers.

>>Those are the numbers.

>>

>>

Long-sought 'God Particle' cornered, scientists say

News is not the final answer some were hoping for, but progress is significant step

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45653534/ns ... ugSv0rY0lU

Physicists are closer than ever to hunting down the elusive Higgs boson particle, the missing piece of the governing theory of the universe's tiniest building blocks.

Scientists at the world's largest particle accelerator, the Large Hadron Collider at the European Organization for Nuclear Research (CERN) in Geneva, Switzerland, announced today (Dec. 13) that they'd narrowed down the list of possible hiding spots for the Higgs, (also called the God particle) and even see some indications that they're hot on its trail.

"I think we are getting very close," said Vivek Sharma, a physicist at the University of California, San Diego, and the leader of the Higgs search at LHC's CMS experiment. "We may be getting the first tantalizing hints, but it's a whiff, it's a smell, it's not quite the whole thing."

Today's announcement was highly anticipated by both the physics community and the public, with speculation running rampant in the days leading up to it that the elusive particle may have finally been found. Though the news is not the final answer some were hoping for, the progress is a significant, exciting step, physicists say. [ Top 5 Implications of Finding the Higgs Boson ]

"It's something really extraordinary and I think we can be all proud of this," said CERN physicist Fabiola Gianotti, spokesperson for the LHC's ATLAS experiment, during a public seminar announcing the results today.

Experts outside the LHC collaborations agreed.

"These are really tough experiments, and it's just really impressive what they're doing," Harvard University theoretical physicist Lisa Randall told LiveScience.

Origin of mass

The Higgs boson is thought to be tied to a field (the Higgs field) that is responsible for giving all other particles their mass. Ironically, physicists don't have a specific prediction for the mass of the Higgs boson itself, so they must search a wide range of possible masses for signs of the particle.

Based on data collected at LHC's CMS and ATLAS experiments, researchers said they are now able to narrow down the Higgs' mass to a small range, and exclude a wide swath of possibilities.

"With the data from this year we've ruled out a lot of masses, and now we're just left with this tiny window, in this region that is probably the most interesting," said Jonas Strandberg, a researcher at CERN working on the ATLAS experiment.

The researchers have now cornered the Higgs mass in the range between 114.4 and 131 gigaelectronvolts (GeV).For comparison, a proton weighs 1 GeV. Outside that range, the scientists are more than 95 percent confident that the Higgs cannot exist.

Within that range, the ATLAS findings show some indications of a possible signal from the Higgs boson at 126 GeV, though the data are not strong enough for scientists to claim a finding with the level of confidence they require for a true discovery.

"Based on the predicted size of the signal, the experiments may have their first glimpse of a positive signal," University of Chicago physicist Jim Pilcher wrote in an email to LiveScience. "It is especially important to compare the results of two independent experiments to help reduce statistical fluctuations and experimental biases."

But it shouldn't be much longer before scientists can be sure if the Higgs exists, and if so, how much mass it has.

"We know we must be getting close," Strandberg told LiveScience. "All we need is a little bit more data. I think the data we take in 2012 should be able to really give a definitive answer if the Higgs boson exists."

Underground explosions

The Large Hadron Collider is a 17-mile (27-kilometer) loop buried underneath France and Switzerland, run by CERN, based in Geneva.

Inside this loop, protons traveling near the speed of light collide head-on, and release huge amounts of energy in powerful explosions.

This energy then coalesces into new particles, some of which are exotic, hard-to-find species like the Higgs. The Higgs quickly decays into other particle products, which are then sensed by the detectors inside ATLAS and CMS. [ 6 Exotic Particles Explained ]

The new results are based on data accumulated over 500 trillion proton-proton collisions inside the LHC.

Big payoff

The Higgs boson and its related Higgs field were predicted in 1964 by physicist Peter Higgs and his colleagues. Though the Higgs mechanism is the best explanation for why particles have mass, it can't be trusted until its major prediction — the Higgs boson — is found. [ Infographic: The Higgs Boson ]

"It would be a major discovery, absolutely," said Randall, who is the author of a recent book covering the Higgs and other particle mysteries called "Knocking on Heaven's Door: How Physics and Scientific Thinking Illuminate the Universe and the Modern World" (Ecco, 2011). "We've known about the Higgs mechanism for years, but we don't know if it's right."

The discovery of the Higgs would offer final credence to the idea and its originators.

"If it is found there are several people who are going to get a Nobel prize," said Vivek Sharma, a physicist at the University of California, San Diego, and the leader of the Higgs search at LHC's CMS experiment.

[moi621 (imported)]

This is the best thing to come along since

the faster then or than

the speed of light particle last month.

Physics is becoming more exciting then or than a baseball game.

[Dave (imported)]

A number of years ago a thin book was published on the soluton to Fermat's Last Theorum (http://www.amazon.com/Fermats-Enigma-Gr ... 359&sr=1-1) and in its first chapter it describes the international seminar where Andrew Wiles of Princeton University first revealed his proof. It took him over ten years to devise the mathemathics involved.

Mathematicians flocked to the lecture on just the speculation of the subject. Why did they do that when only a handful of them could really understand the math involved from beginning to end? Because from the first words of the lecture, the words that all math proofs begin with "IF THIS" and to the final "THEN" and the conclusion, they knew history was being made and they wanted their children and grandchildren so be able to say they were there.

This is one of those situations. This is walking on the moon for physics. this is the discovery of DNA. Names will be taken for historical reference for a hundred years to come.

This is what scientist do day after day without much glory.

This will be glorious.

[Riverwind (imported)]

Excuse me if I don't join in the hype, but could you in layman's terms explain just what this means, and how it will help man kind, don't misunderstand me, I am all for science, and the advancement of same but is this something we can make in mass for the market because if its this exciting everybody is going to want some.

I did watch a Nova a couple weeks ago were they were talking about black matter, and multiple universes, how does this fit in or does it at all?

I guess my bottom line is this, will it put food on the table.

I don't mean to sound ungrateful, but, I had a friend that worked at Lawrence Livermore Lab, and he said to me, he just got done with an experiment to measure the speed of light to 22 decimal positions, he was just as excited as you are, I asked him the same question and he just walked away.

River

[Cainanite (imported)]

First it is a fundamental understanding of how our universe works. That is pretty big news. We might not see the benefit from this immediately, but we probably will in 50 years. That is how science works and benefits us.

Second (and I'm going to get fanciful here) If we know what causes mass, what if we could learn to change it? Could we be talking about faster travel with less energy? Could you make a star-ship have less mass? Require less fuel to push it through the cosmos?

Understanding how particles and waves are formed and come together will most likely trickle down into our technology allowing for even more powerful computing, clearer and more reliable communications.

If you could understand how all these atoms and quarks and quantum bits function, you might be able to make a nuclear power plant with no radioactive waste. You might be able to finally crack cold-fusion. Who wouldn't like some free unlimited energy?

Okay. Fanciful thinking done.

Real answer. We don't really know right now. It does open up a lot of possibilities. The next big hurdle. We need that unified field theory, or theory of everything.

If this pans out, then Star Trek technology just got a whole lot closer to reality.

[janekane (imported)]

Perhaps it is time for me to demonstrate a little bit of understanding of physics. Or demonstrate my being incompetent in physics...

The researchers have now cornered the Higgs mass in the range between 114.4 and 131 gigaelectronvolts (GeV).For comparison, a proton weighs 1 GeV. Outside that range, the scientists are more than 95 percent confident that the Higgs cannot exist.

The unit, "electron-volt" is a unit of energy. Energy is related to mass per Einstein, wherein the speed of light is plus or minus the square root of (energy divided by mass), or mass is (energy divided by the square of the speed of light). Either way, mass is not energy because of that c-squared thing. Therefore, mass cannot be measured in electron-volts and the mass of the Higgs boson cannot be measured in electron volts or gigalectron-volts because the electron-volt is not a unit of mass. Furthermore, mass is not weight because weight, in a gravitational field is the product of mass and gravity. Therefore, a proton cannot be weighed in electron-volts.

Furthermore, I have dreadful doubts about the methodology or mindset wherein something is made of what it can be broken into. An ordinary drinking tumbler made of glass is not made of the shards of glass into which such a tumbler can be broken. The surface energy of the shards which is not the surface energy of the intact tumbler is not part of the intact tumbler. A real, physical object is made of the "particles" as well as the relationship(s) among the "particles." In taking matter apart, as in the Large Hadron Collider, relationships are destroyed in the isolating of the "particles" (such as the Higgs boson, assuming that the Higgs has been observed).

How many engineering classes did I take (and pass) in which the professor/teacher hounded students to be aware of "units" or "dimensions" of measurement and calculation.

When something written about science equivalences energy with mass with weight, without including the dimensions the factors which relate mass to energy to weight, I have to allow for people having yet more to learn. People includes me.

[Slammr (imported)]

Excuse me if I don't join in the hype, but could you in layman's terms explain just what this means, and how it will help man kind, don't misunderstand me, I am all for science, and the advancement of same but is this something we can make in mass for the market because if its this exciting everybody is going to want some.

I did watch a Nova a couple weeks ago were they were talking about black matter, and multiple universes, how does this fit in or does it at all?

I guess my bottom line is this, will it put food on the table.

I don't mean to sound ungrateful, but, I had a friend that worked at Lawrence Livermore Lab, and he said to me, he just got done with an experiment to measure the speed of light to 22 decimal positions, he was just as excited as you are, I asked him the same question and he just walked away.

River

When scientists came up with quantum mechanics years ago, had you been there and asked the same question, you might not have received an answer that made sense to you, but without quantum mechanics, the computer you're reading this on wouldn't exist. Anytime we learn more about how things work we open up new possibilities. Often we have no idea where these discoveries will lead, but without them, we go nowhere. Computers and transistors didn't come into being until long after quantum mechanics was discovered, but they wouldn't exist, if no one knew about quantum mechanics. Who knows where this will lead, but any advance in science is a good thing, in my opinion.

[Riverwind (imported)]

Thank you both for that, which is the answer I expected, now don't get me wrong I think science is a good thing, but by the time they figure out what they just figured out I will be long gone so I won't hold my breath on any breakthrough technologies coming along in the next few years, but I can say this, I have lived in an exciting time. Look at all the things we have seen in our lifetime. My father said that to me as we watched them land on the moon, he was born in 1898. I now understand what my father said. Its just that this discovery if it is a discovery that they hope they are right well anyway, it explains or puts into place one more of the building blocks of how our universe works which (oh boy I am going to get in trouble here) way better then the Genesis theory.

River

[Dave (imported)]

Excuse me if I don't join in the hype, but could you in layman's terms explain just what this means, and how it will help man

kind

...

River

I think that the Higgs Boson is to mass what electons are to electricity.

If it is found, then much of the theory that scientists use in newtonian physics, particle physics and quantum mechanics is the appropriate theory. The Higgs Boson completes the symmetrical number of particles. Think of that as a cube set on one point and the Higgs is the top point and the other particles are the bottom point and the four side points. Now that a simple-minded explanation of what symmetry means in particle physics and quantum mechanics. But it illustrates what is meant by "set" of particles and "symmetry" ... IF the Higgs Boson fits the model, then we know and understand the fundamental building blocks of the universe.

As to what it might ultimately mean.

Well, In 1895 when Roentgen discovered X-rays, I doubt he had any conception of cat-scans and x-ray tomography that are common today. Typically, we can't see what the ultimate use will be. HOWEVER, think of the the electron as highly active and easily moveable through the "sea" of particles that surround us. Electrons are always interacting and sending electric and magnetic waves out to do lots of things. That's the way that electrons present themselves in our universe. Electrons gave us electricity. Quantum mechanics gave us semiconductors and computer chips.

Think of the Higgs Boson as a whale but a weakly interacting one (it is seldom seen and rarely causes waves). It's property might be manifested as MASS. If it does manifest as math, then we have the opportunity to describe gravity from mathematics principles. Right now, quantum mechanics has a lousy description of gravity that doesn't lend itself to any good mathematics description. The proof of symmetry with the Higgs boson may do exactly that - give us the mathematical tools to describe the four fundamental forces in one set of equations. That would join Newtonian and Quantum mechanics. Those two systems are not joined now. Newtonian mechanics fails at high speeds and really, really tiny distances. Quantum Mechanics cannot describe big things, only the very tiny interactions. A joining of the two, would advance our understanding of the universe.

[Riverwind (imported)]

Thank you, that answers my question.

no food today but maybe someday,

River