It seems to me that an interesting philosophical question is "where are you within your body?" What I mean is, are you still you if you cut off your dick? What about if you then cut off your hand, then cut off your leg, etc.? Are we "reduced" by each of these losses? Are we really just our brain, or should we be more holistic and consider every piece of our body as part of a colony that forms us?

In my opinion, our bodies are colonies (or societies) of cells, each with a specific function and a right to live. Does any one group deserve to be destroyed? Isn't a desire to cut off a part of the body sort of like a civil war within that society? Isn't the brain and body (or a piece of it) at war with each other? Is such a inner conflict a healthy thing?

On the one hand, I do understand that someone born with male genitals may have serious desires to remove them. But I also wonder why we can't learn to embrace the way our body is without judgement of "what we should be". Can't such a person just live as a female or eunuch but keep and enjoy their penis?

I believe in the wisdom of eastern philosophies that talk about "integrating mind and body", and my interpretation would say that a desire to cut off one's genitals is not really such integration.

I also think there is a prejudice against genitals. Genitals are a significant part of the body (even for those of you who have small genitals), but we treat them as more expendable than other parts. There are serious vascular, hormonal, generative, and urinary implications to slicing off a penis, yet we (on this board) happily fantasize about it. Would you consider yourself healthy if you were fantasizing about chopping off your hands instead?

Anyway, I urge all of you to consider what holisticness means for you. I am not saying some of you should not have become eunuchs, I am just trying to explore how to best integrate this desire to lose my genitals into my life so I can find inner peace without destroying my wholeness.

SplitDick (imported) wrote: Sat Feb 23, 2002 4:33 pm But I also wonder why we can't learn to embrace the way our body is without judgement of "what we should be". Can't such a person just live as a female or eunuch but keep and enjoy their penis?

I am not sure what prompted this, but I can assure you that I have never had the slightest desire for a penectomy, nor do I want one one now. I wanted to remove the effects of the hormone testosterone from my body. This has been done. I like the convenience of being able to stand up when I pee.

I come across this in the chat room a lot. A lot of guys seem to be hung up on penectomies, for reasons I do not undertsand, and keep wondering why I did not have one after my castration. I think this is all beyond my comprehension.

SplitDick, you are quite the philosopher, but I respectfully disagree. About ten years ago I lost two of my fingers in an accident. Emotionally I felt their loss very deeply. It is also a slight physical handicap. However I am definitely the same person as I was before the accident. I am also the same person as I was before I was castrated. Although now my mind is clearer and I am calmer.

I don't think that most people, especially men, would consider their genitals to be expendable. I think that many men would rather die than lose their genitals. There was a time when I felt the same way.

As far as a penectomy goes, I agree with Andrew. I have never wanted one and I don't understand why anyone else does.

The Real Eunuch,

You mentioned the loss of two fingers. My question is, are you sure it is not more than an inconvenience? Is it possible that you lost the 1% of the "you" that your fingers made up of your body?

I'm not trying to get you down, I'm just trying to understand what the feeling of such loss really is. I for one crave penectomy, but am not sure what such a permanent alteration would feel like. Are fingers or the penis just a tool? Or are they part of a holistic being?

Thanks for sharing.

SD

I'm sure that the loss of my fingers is nothing more than an inconvenience. I lost parts of my body, but not parts of myself. A penis and fingers are just tools/input devices.

I'll give a sci-fi example to demonstrate my point. Let's say hypothetically that I have a disease which is killing my body, but doesn't effect my brain. Some how doctors have grown a new body (without a brain) for me in a lab. So then they remove my healthy brain from my diseased body and put it in the new body. I would still be me, even with the new body.

Now let's do it the opposite way. My brain is diseased and dying but my body is healthy. So the doctors grow a new brain. They take my diseased brain out and throw it in the trash. Then they put the new brain in my healthy body. The person laying there on the operating table wouldn't be me.

Unlike the input devices on your computer you can't just plug your penis back in once you disconnect it. So think long and hard about it before you do something you might later regret. If you have any doubts at all then I suggest that you don't have it chopped off.

The Real Eunuch,

Thank you for your reply.

I take it from your response that you consider "you" to be all within your brain. That is a common western view. The reason I wonder if that is true is that I have become very interested in eastern philosophies which don't see it that way -- for them "you" is the combination of brain WITH body. The way the body feels and the way it acts are just as important to them as the brain. For them, a replacement body would be a new you, just as we believe a replacement brain to be.

One way they explain their way of thinking is that they consider our brain to be like the "government" for the body. All cells (brain and body) are important, but our brain can either be a good government or a bad government for our body. So it is true that our brain makes all the decisions, but our body is necessary to carry them out. The most effective "society" is one where the government works to protect the rest of the society and ensure that it thrives. So brain and body must be really in tune with each other -- integrated awareness.

I don't know how far I believe this, but I am just attempting to provoke thought and challenge our western thinking about this. It seems relevant to our desire.

SD.

One thing you should keep in mind is that the holistic philosophy was created by an ancient people who didn't have the benefit of our modern science. Personally, I put little value into any belief system created by ancient people who had far more ignorance than knowledge, regardless of whether they are eastern, western, or whatever. I am more likely to believe something that can be proven than I am to believe something that was scribbled on animal hides by primitive people. I hope I haven't offended you. I respect your right to have your own opinion.

I tend to agree with you. However, there are two ways to view our life experience -- objectively, or subjectively. Western views are generally objective, and eastern are generally subjective. Both have good points and limitations.

Objectively, like you said, science could find ways to keep your brain alive in a jar. Subjectively I doubt that such an existence would be as rewarding as being in a healthy, young body.

Science is great, but I don't think science really helps people be happy. That's where subjective philosophies and religions come in -- they have thousands of years of experience in giving people ways to live a fulfilling life.

So I'm interested in asking about the FEELINGS I would have if I lost body parts. I am sure that I could continue to live with or without a penis. But would I feel better or worse? I do think I will feel better, but there is no way to know for sure. That is not the same as having doubts though, I'm just acknowledging a risk.

I have never lost any body parts. I still have my appendix, tonsils, spleen, etc. I, personally, do not wish to lose my testis, just make them stop working. Therefore, I cannot understand why anyone would wish to lose an organ which allows one to conveniently urinate anywhere. Or, barring a sex change, is it just a fantasy?

I want penectomy because I hate my penis. I hate the way it looks and I hate the way it feels. It is there all the time, throbbing and rubbing -- it drives me crazy when I'm walking, etc.

I have tried to cut it off myself, but it is too bloody an operation. If you look at pictures of proper medical penectomies by real surgeons, even they are pretty bloody, and the healing process afterwards needs to be handled very carefully.

However, while I know penectomy desire is rarer than castration desire, I think that having ones balls removed is a similarly drastic loss. It must be life altering. So I am still interested in understanding how losing a body part affects one's sense of "wholeness".