In the news about Benoit's apparent killing of his child and wife, it was mentioned that he had low testosterone which was possibly related to use of steroids. It was also mentioned that men with low testosterone were known to sometimes be violent. Here we often talk about "eunch calm".

So which one is true? Any ideas? Any personal stories about experiencing the anger or propensity to violence as well as reports from those who have not?

I wondered about this too. It gets a bit confusing about the mileage all differing.

I've read enough posts here to see how hard low testosterone can hit someone, even if that's what is desired. When chemicals or surgery are involved, the body is very traumatized by the sudden los of T while as opposed to a natural decline over years. It is very possible that he sunk to the depts of depression and had a psychotic episode brought on by narcotics. It is a truely sad situation. I have a daughter the same age as the son that he killed and I just can't imagine hurting her. His actions are not indicative of a sane or rational person. May they all rest in peace....

0_Wisher (imported) wrote: Fri Jun 29, 2007 3:30 pm In the news about Benoit's apparent killing of his child and wife, it was mentioned that he had low testosterone which was possibly related to use of steroids. It was also mentioned that men with low testosterone were known to sometimes be violent. Here we often talk about "eunch calm".

So which one is true? Any ideas? Any personal stories about experiencing the anger or propensity to violence as well as reports from those who have not?

What is probably going on is "roid rage." Steroid users can often experience extensive rages, and become violent. Steroids have a strong tendency to suppress T production since it supplants it. (Others can probably give you much better "chemistry" than I can.

Some folks have been know to experience "grumpiness," etc. with a lack of T. Most folks, however, with this issue do NOT experience this; they do often become much more emotionally labile though.

In my personal experience, having low testosterone levels was far worse than having none. I was depressed and angry a lot for no apparent reason, generally listless and unenergetic. It sucked. I read some article once that also talked about how low testosterone levels tend to make guys angry, whereas overly high ones actually tend to be calming. Don't have the link, though.

Apparently, some men (with naturally low t) do report being calmer on an artificially boosted t level, as reported in certain studies. Others report to the contrary. However, I suppose this particular phenomenon (if not largely psychosomatic) is mainly due to suppression of gonadal/pituitary function rather than the effects of testosterone itself. Perhaps artificial hormones suppress certain secretions from the gonads/adrenals that may be responsible for increased anger in SOME men. Alternatively, they may increase estrogen levels wich may add to the perception of increased calmness. This may, in part, explain why men with low t (150 - 300 ng/dl) are much more likely to report being calmer on hrt than do eunuchs with a castrate t level, wich typically averages between 20 - 50 ng/dl. My personal experience with natural t is that it most certainly made me more aggressive and hostile, as well as significantly more anxious.

Across many studies, a naturally occuring high t level has been associated with aggression and anger, as well as a tendency to transgression and violent crimes. Furthermore, the few studies that looked at acute intervention with castration, be it on criminals, oridnary men or aggressive men with Alzheimer's, all reported siginificant reductions in assaultive behavior and feelings of outward anger (for more details, I refer to my post at: http://www.eunuch.org/vbulletin/showpos ... stcount=32 ). In addition, we should keep in mind that there are certain important differences between naturally and artificially low t levels. Almost all of the eunuchs that I know of have reported of being at least a little, and often significantly more calmer than before. Some eunuchs do in fact experience temporary periods of increased irritability as they adjust to acute t withdrawal, wich, however, is due to the fluctuations in hormones rather than low levels of it.

That a former steroid user ends up in a situation like this is not the least surprising. It does not really matter what level he had at this time, since we do know that his brain once was exposed to large doses of potent steroids. It has been well estabslihed that steroids do have certain long-lasting effects on the psyche that do not go away easily, even for years after cessation.

Zoroaster (imported) wrote: Fri Jun 29, 2007 7:46 pm In my personal experience, having low testosterone levels was far worse than having none. I was depressed and angry a lot for no apparent reason, generally listless and unenergetic. It sucked. I read some article once that also talked about how low testosterone levels tend to make guys angry, whereas overly high ones actually tend to be calming. Don't have the link, though.

Do you mean to say that your symptomes were a lot better on a castrate level vs. a "low" level?

Yes, they were. I take testosterone normally but there was a period where I didn't have any. Previous to that I had gone from 'normal' to a very low amount of it (severe injury to testicles). When it was low, I had the aforementioned issues. When there was none, I got weirdly emotional and weepy a lot, which was also aggravating, but not so much pissed off all the time.

I've chatted online a few times with other guys who were cut in their 20's, and most had similar experiences. Also, like me, none of them got 'calm' afterward. Depressed and/or tired, maybe, but none of this calmness they speak of. It seems to be an age-related thing - from what I've read on here or in the chatrooms, that only seems to happen if you're generally "older" - an indefinable term, admittedly. Of the people I've spoken to with a similar experience, I think the oldest was 28 when cut. Keep in mind this is only maybe five people, though - all anecdotal.

0_Wisher (imported) wrote: Fri Jun 29, 2007 3:30 pm In the news about Benoit's apparent killing of his child and wife, it was mentioned that he had low testosterone which was possibly related to use of steroids. It was also mentioned that men with low testosterone were known to sometimes be violent. Here we often talk about "eunch calm".

So which one is true? Any ideas? Any personal stories about experiencing the anger or propensity to violence as well as reports from those who have not?

Low testosterone can cause "depression" like symptoms and among them anger. This is a "Your results may vary" thing because there are some men who say they attain a calm. There is a good book about a sports guy who used massive amounts of testosterone and then went off it to try to get his testicles to recover size wise. His low T time was pretty "angry" if the book is correct.

Super high levels of testosterone can cause anger "Roid Rage"

The trick (I believe) is to reach a healthy state in the middle. Not too high or low.

As a side note, it is perfectly possible (and perhaps more than likely) that neither low t or steroids could have much if anything to do with this particular family tradegy. It's really hard to tell in complicated cases like this. There was recently a similar case near where I live, where a seemingly average male with a college degree working for an oil company brutally murdered his two little children, his wife and finally himself. Everybody were in shock and so far there are no sufficient explanations as to the "motive". From the outside, he was neither aggressive nor "deviant", and had no conflicts at work. No one who knew the murderer personally could have ever anticipated that he was capable of doing what he did. Go figure.

Over half the world's population does have low testosterone and unfortunately I have had seen some of them get really pretty violent in my time. But still there are less women in the lock-up than there are men. The one thing that I have seen that can actually be more violent than two men fighting over one woman is two women fighting after one man.