Is there any current, MAINSTREAM, religion that endorses castration?

I'm not necessarily talking about something from centuries ago, but from the here and now. (Allegedly, the Catholic church had its choir boys castrated. But that was hundreds of years ago. Yes?)

Do cults count? The only one I really know of is the infamous Heaven's Gate.

Where does *religion* play a part sin omebody's decision to be castrated?

Does God speak to someone and personally tell them to go get castrated? I was under the (unfair?) assumption that when someone makes it public that God "told" them to get castrated, they were/are eligible for the looney bin. (No offense.)

***ENLIGHTEN ME***

As the old saying goes, when you talk to God, it's called prayer. When God talks back to you, it's called mental illness.

I don't know of any current religions that endorse castration, although as Jesus' thread about it some months ago has to make one wonder if there are NOT churches out there - independently - endorsing castration. After all, a lot of them play with snakes.

Many religions don't like sex for many reasons. Some holy men of India, known as 'sah-juz' (phonetic, I can't spell it) make themselves impotent by stretching the penis, encasing the genitals, or tucking the genitals back into the body. Over time, they become impotent, as this practice is begun in boyhood. Their belief is that they can attain an altered state of higher consciousness if they do not orgasm but are still intact males.

One also has to wonder if the Russian backwoods don't still harbor some Skoptzy members as well.

I am a Christian member of the United Methodist Church which is a mainline denomination. I also call myself a evangelical and a "closet" charasmatic. therefore I reply.

You will always find groups which use religion to advocate one position or another. So the best source I know for an answer would be the textbook of Christianity, the Holy Bible. I found three places where eunuchs are mentioned. And in every place eunuchs are in a positive light. I found nothing negative said about eunuchs, for which I am very glad! I refer you to Isaiah 56: 4-5, Matthew 19:12, and Acts 8: 27-39.

My primary reason for desiring castration the constant battle I have with lust. And the Bible does say things about lust. I do not think God directly is telling anyone to be castrated. It would sure help me in my battle. I hope You don't send me to the looney bin. I hope what I said helps. e-mail me if you wish -Steve

Steve (imported) wrote: Fri Jan 25, 2002 11:35 am I refer you to Isaiah 56: 4-5, Matthew 19:12, and Acts 8: 27-39.

My primary reason for desiring castration the constant battle I have with lust. And the Bible does say things about lust. I do not think God directly is telling anyone to be castrated

Actually, translations of Matthew 19:12 that are faithful to the original Greek make it clear that Jesus would indeed like you to be castrated for the sake of the Kingdom Of Heaven if you are willing to accept "it". But Jesus also noted that this is not for everyone (obviously).

Steve (imported) wrote: Fri Jan 25, 2002 11:35 am My primary reason for desiring castration the constant battle I have with lust. And the Bible does say things about lust. I do not think God directly is telling anyone to be castrated. It would sure help me in my battle. I hope You don't send me to the looney bin. I hope what I said helps.

Well, would it help your battle? Maybe, but I don't think that you can justify it by the Bible, because of Deuteronomy Chapter 23 verses 1-2.

SO, fight the good fight, my friend. Remember what happened to David in II Samuel Chapter 11. After insuring that her husband, Uriah the Hittite, was killed in battle, King David comforted Bathsheba. After taking her as a wife their first son was taken from them. Their second son was Solomon.

By the way, Bathsheba was BLACK. Why do I say this? Because in Chapter 1 verse 5 of the Song of Solomon, Solomon tells us that HE is BLACK. Read it. Now, either Bathsheba was BLACK or all the Jews in Israel are Black, take your pick.

Steve, don't be too concerned with feelings of LUST. It is the human condition. In Matthew Chapter 5 Verses 27 - 32 Jesus Christ (not the archive Jesus) explains our world and condition very nicely. Does this mean that we should cut those parts off that offend us? That is not for me to say.

I take it to mean that it is intended for us to remove the thing that keeps putting us into temptation. Like quitting your Playboy subscription or maybe quitting coaching the High School girls cross-country team and getting away from supervising their shower room experiences via hidden web cams. Perhaps it is as simple as avoiding the the HOT little 19-year-old wench down the street.

If you should fall, there is ALWAYS forgiveness. BTW, that is from GOD, don't EXPECT MIRACLES FROM YOUR WIFE! Mark chapter 3 vs 28-29 and Luke Chapter 12 verse 10 explain this concept. If you want precise meaning to this look at Matthew Chapter 12 verses 31 - 32. It IS pretty specific as to what can be forgiven and what cannot.

Even if you fall constantly, just as long as you never ACT on your lusts, you are still keeping the commandment against Adultry, but remember that you are no BETTER than the one who commits adultry, except in the respect because you haven't yet. You really want to commit adultry, but instead just look and lust. Get it?

In my humble opinion if God would have wanted you without BALLS, you would have been born WITHOUT BALLS. However, since that is apparently NOT the case, you are as he intended YOU to be. Perhaps your balls are a BURDEN to you, like poor Saint Paul describes HIS burden in II Corinthians, Chapter 12 verses 7 - 9. BTW, there IS a reason why you are burdened with such things. One is that you are SUPPOSED to be human.

But, if you can no longer STAND them, then cut them off. If it is a sin you will be forgiven for the sin if you repent and ask. But for heaven's sake don't ASSUME that you MUST do it to stay out of Hell, because that just is NOT the case.

Life Is in many cases a trial. We are placed in situations for a purpose.

So, Steve,

Cut if you must to get rid of the LUST,

But as those parts decay into dust,

Remember that you will NEVER be JUST,

Except through Christ who died for us!

bye!

A-1

Steve,

Somewhere in the Bible, I cannot remember where, it says something like "IF thy hand offend thee, cut it off. If thine eye offend thee, pluck it out."

When I was considering castration this passage was one of my major considerations. Given my situation in lfe, I had come to the point where my balls did indeed "offend" me, that is to say the testosterone that I never seemed to be able control in an acceptable way was getting the better of me.

Now that they are gone I don't look for any special accolades from Heaven, but I don't feel any guilt either. And it is easier to obey some of the commandments in the Bible.

It is in

A-1 (imported) wrote: Fri Jan 25, 2002 5:39 pm In Matthew Chapter 5 Verses 27 - 32.

It is part of the "Sermon on the Mount".

I say if it is what you must do then go for it. My point is that you cannot justify it through Jesus' teachings unless you feel that you MUST justify the doing of it. It is an OPTION, not a requirement.

It will not cause you to go to Hell or keep you from Hell. It may just give you some peace on earth, though.

A-1

A-1

I don't think any of us think that castration will keep us from hell as if it was a magic process to keep us from sinning. One of my reasons for wanting castration is to have peace of mind. Getting into heaven is not dependent on whether you have testes.

BTW do you know, all in heaven will be eunuchs! We will be neither male nor female.

We might not even think about sex. Heaven for some might be hell for others! LOL

Of Course!

Why do you think that I compared it to the infirmaries of St. Paul?

Turning the song "what's Love got to do with it?" by Tina Turner around we could ask "Love, what's SEX got to do with it?"

I hope that you see my point. Angels are sexless, also. (Except for possibly John Travolta )

See Matthew 22 : 30, or rather 23-33; Mark 12 : 25 or the whole story 18 - 27; or finally, Luke 20 : 35-36 or the whole story 27 - 37.

It is simple to understand the plan. For further enhancement please re-visit the story of Lot and Sodom and Gomorrah in Genesis Chapters 18 & 19. Pay close attention to the BLESSING of the Jews Chapter 19 vs 18 and also Chapter 22 vs 18.

Understand that the mob in the city of Sodom wanted to RAPE the angels! They turned down Lot's virgin daughters and opted instead to RAPE the angels!

Well, BAD idea. The Angels could have destroyed the place then and there but instead Lot intervened and the Angels only struck the would-be rapists blind. After that, Lot was told to take his wife and daughters and leave the place after which it was destroyed.

Lot's wife was turned into a pillar of salt for looking back. Then, Lot's daughters got Lot drunk and became pregnant by him. The boys that they bore him became the fathers of the tribes of the Moabites and the Ammonites who made lots of problems later on.

Point: Could RAPE be the sin that got Sodom and Gomorrah destroyed? You are to answer this one for yourselves. BTW, keep in mind that this is the scripture among others that is used to condemn homosexuality.

In my estimation although one might argue the point of homosexuality being a sin from interpretation of certain Old Testament scripture, certainly it was the PROMISCUITY AND RAPE that caused Sodom and Gomorrah to be destroyed.

Homosexuality is no more of a problem than eating forbidden foods as described in Leviticus. Although it is NOT my lifestyle, I refuse to condemn those who live it and furthermore, Christ admonishes us not to be judgemental. As long as the participants are consenting adults, there is nothing wrong with LOVE. Sex is an expression of LOVE but it is NOT LOVE.

SEX, when misused, is the problem here.

SEX, without meaningful committment and trust is LUST.

Adultry is Sex with another when one is committed to someone else. Referred to in Proverbs as sex with STRANGE women. Strange women as in Proverbs Ch6 vs 3 and 20. Also, Prov 6:24, 7:5, 20:16, 21:8, 22:14, 23:27, 23:33 and 27:13.

Boys, avoid those Strange Women!

Well, interesting conversation. I hope that there can be many more like this in the future.

Always remember that at times SEX SUCKS!

The only time that SEX seems important is when you are NOT getting it!

Unless, of course, you are a Eunuch.

A-1

A-1,

Very good posts. I like your insight.

My two cents are that most popular religions advocate sexual "restraint" to the point that it is close to eunuch-hood. Christians, Muslims and Jews generally discourage masturbation and pornography, pre-marital sex and extra-marital sex, homosexual and bestiality relationships, etc.

Jewish boys are taught to never even touch their penis (they urinate without touching it). Some say circumcision is essentially meant as an anti-masturbation measure.

The Pope still is anti birth control, and the point is that sex is meant for procreation -- not recreation.

Muslims can't even stand the sight of a woman's face because they might be tempted.

Hindu ascetics renouce sex and some practice castration or other abstinence type practices.

Even Taoists, who take the most natural view toward living, say things like "no sex without love", and "only make love when the penis stirs on its own". These are obviously statements about moderation in sex.

From these points of view, I think that eunch-hood would make someone into a model Christian, Jew, Muslim, etc. That does not mean that those religions advocate castration, but their ideals of morality almost require it to fully embody those ideals. As A-1 said, angels were considered asexual.