This AAS is somewhat frequently used as a part of hormone replacement therapy and tends to have a very beneficial effect on joint health and muscle mass. In the absence of testosterone, it is one of the few things that may be safe enough to use long term to keep physical strength and size up. It is also derived from progesterone and is very good at shutting down the HPTA axis, thereby reducing libido and erectile capability.

I was surprised that I did a search and came back with litte info on this. How many of you have actually used it successfully and what have your experiences been like? Other than the shutdown, it is known to be a very mild compound without too many adverse sides. Bodybuilders typically use very large doses aimed at anabolism. At lower doses I'd be it would be very mild indeed.

Opinions and experiences?

Do You need a prescription and what is the dosage ? N3RF

http://www.mesomorphosis.com/steroid-pr ... abolin.htm

try the location above for more info

Bodybuilding doses are typically around 300-400 mg EW. I'd suspect HRT doses are closer to 100mg EW. Probably not more than 200mg (don't quote me on the HRT dose part).

Meso is definitely a good place to learn about AAS. But try finding someone on there interested in actually reducing libido, haha. Nandrolone is a scheduled drug in the U.S. Just like basic testosterone, so it requires a prescription.

I am taking it that this latter point is why people haven't tried it on these forums?

Standalone (imported) wrote: Sat Feb 17, 2007 1:11 am How many of you have actually used it successfully and what have your experiences been like? Other than the shutdown, it is known to be a very mild compound without too many adverse sides. Bodybuilders typically use very large doses aimed at anabolism. At lower doses I'd be it would be very mild indeed.

Opinions and experiences?

Didn't reduce sex drive, as long as I used it with some testosterone, but it killed my ability to get an erection, even with the testosterone. I couldn't imagine what it would be like with Dece by itself with no testosterone to go along with it.

Test + Deca

or

Test + Trenbolone (another progesterone derivative)

Nearly always results in a very high sex drive because of the supra physiological doses of testosterone. However, nandrolone seems to have an effect all across the HPTA axis. Further, it is primarily known for causing deca dick. When deca shuts most everything down, simply replacing testosterone doesn't correct everything. I personally notice that my erections and bloodflow are not as good on a test only cycle as they are when I am on my natty test.

To try and mimic more closely the effects of natural testosterone, I think something like Swale's approach to HRT would work better. Id est, inject testosterone to bring male levels of free test to high normal. Use HCG at 500 IU EW. Then add pregnenolone or maybe even DHEA and finally an AI or SERM to balance the various estrogens in the body. He seems to think that will mimic natty prodcutions half way decently. That is a lot to be taking, but it illustrates that bringing everything back isn't as easy as just adding test.

My best theory to date why deca is so bad for bloodflow is that it has almost no androgenic properties. It is so mild on the hair it is ridiculous. And if you have ever run trenbolone by itself, you will know that bloodflow, morning wood and overall erectile function can be very powerful. Fina is such a strong androgen and any dht or dht metabolite can definitely help with erections.

Just look at what proscar does. It lowers dht. One side effect of that is a difficulty in achieving an erection and a lower libido. People don't give anywhere near enough credit to the importance of DHT when it comes to getting hard.

just switched to testim, a full tube every day with good results, now i'm anxious to add deca, in the bodybuilder amts metioned to add size and help my joints out in my powerlifting.

i'm aware of the deca dick syndrome, but will this help with testicular shrinking?

Brock

Brock,

Are you using the testim primarily for HRT purposes?

Of course results from using deca will vary a lot with the individual. But most will find it does a great job at lubing and protecting the joints while on it. Of course also consider different, non-AAS joint protective and regenerative supplements like glucosamin and chondroitin (also msm + hyluronic acid for some).

I have never had any adverse joint problems from using testosterone. But in general, the consensus seems to be that test can cause problems in high doses. Anecdotally, many bodybuilders experience what appears to be joint protective benefits from test up to a certain point (maybe 200-300 mg Test Enanthate a week for example). But with higher doses, test seems to start to hurt and possibly weaken joints. Not cool.

With the exception of hard shut down of the HPTA axis, as mentioned, deca seems to have few sides (watch out for bloat though at bodybuilding doses).

The best way to avoid testicular shrinkage is to prevent it. Using 250 IU of HCG twice a week a la Swale's protocol seems to work very well. But you need to start this before the shrinkage occurs. Generally start it within about 3 weeks of starting your steroid usage. It takes about that long roughly for the balls to start shrinking.

If they have already shrunk and you don't want them to, you will likely need to use a slightly more aggressive HCG protocol to restore their size. But keep in mind that higher doses of HCG may desensitize the lehdig cells, which is a bad thing. That is the whole point of using HCG prior to shrinkage. If you plan to cycle off of steroids and have been on good long while, HCG is probably best used about a month before post cycle therapy at moderate doses (start lower and experiment to see how little you can use and still get the balls bigger).

Also consider researching a less known compound called HMG in addition to using HCG.

HCG is very oft recommended with cycles of Tren, Deca or any progestenic supplement to avoid shrinkage.

If you are specifically wanting raisins, deca is about the best thing I an think to try.

What I was getting at wrt to all the random info about test and joints is that you might consider just switching test delivery and running a higher dose. Test is typically a bit more anabolic than deca mg/mg (it may be way more anabolic for some). By using more test you would run the risk of hair loss (look into finasteride, dutasteride, or even topical spiro to prevent this), gyno (can be mitigated by use of an SERM or AI), some joint issue at high dosing, and even potential prostate issues from excess dht. The advantage would be that test doesn't shut you down as hard and would send libido through the ceiling if that is what you want. It is also possible you may bet more strength from test than from deca.

Me? I'd do both considering the sides of each if I wanted to really improve in powerlifting.

Using more test adds an element of risk though that many men would want to avoid.

Feeling like a king is fun though.

I once used Tren for three years straight, and by itself at that. LOL You are right, very powerful erections. And at the same time, a low sex drive, which I always thought was a neat combo.

I also agree with your theory on why Deca kills the dick. But would like to add also that it has some kind of progesterone activity and too much of that female hormone does some weird stuff to a guy's drive. Tren supposedly mimics another female type hormone, to some extent anyway, and loads of it will kill the drive as well, even with testosterone aboard. But probably the most sexdriveless I have ever been was wen I was stacking EQ and Deca. It's like the Deca killed my dick and the EQ kills the drive. BTW, those two don't make good cosmetic sense together, as the Deca covers with water any fine muscularity the EQ may be giving. . .

Standalone (imported) wrote: Sat Feb 24, 2007 10:14 am If you are specifically wanting raisins, deca is about the best thing I an think to try.

So true. A low dose of Deca, even 100mg/wk, shrinks balls better than 1,000mg/wk of testosterone cypionate, for me anyway. I have been on things like either Tren, a big time ball shrinker, or Deca, or a high dose of testosterone for so long that my shrinkage seems to be permanent. I did get my rejuvenation clinic to prescribe me Teslac one time and they got huge. Though, I think they just seemed huge to me because of what I was used to. I was showing my girlfriend and was like, "Look how big they are now" and she was like, "Well, actually, they are now average."

Tren

3 Years on tren is a good run. If you don't mind me asking, what doses did you use? I take it your tren was the acetate ester? I am wondering if a really low dose, long cycle would be viable or productive. For sure bloodwork would be an absolute necessity. Tren can sure be harsh for a lot of guys.

The change in sex drive and ability is absolutely a neat combo. I normally will want to do things alone maybe 10-15 times a week at least. On tren by itself I am fine with maybe 5x a week and could be happy if it only happened 3-4 times. The sex drive it gives for me is very aggressive and virile when I am around women, but super easy to control when I am not. It is very easy to focus on other things in life.

I find a number of AAS that are considered harsher tend to slightly to moderately reduce libido while making erections much more powerful. Another part of the reason the erections are so strong and so good is the CNS stimulation and muscle/strength building aspects of the drugs. On tren, the whole body is so much stronger, including the PC muscles.

Deca+EQ

That is really interesting about this stack. It is a stack I may try for other purposes at some point anyhow. The only thing that is scaring me a little bit about using Nandrolone is the possible permanance of shutdown. It is not a big deal to me that it shuts you down hard. Lots of harsh AAS can do that.

EQ is so mild, I can see how its effects would be largely overshadowed. My plan is to run EQ alone as a mild bridge or cycle by itself first. How else can you even tell what it is doing.