Thomas Hobbes made the well-known observation that the life of mankind is solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short. Henry David Thoreau wrote that most men live lives of quiet desperation. Theodore Roosevelt once said that most of the world's work is done by men who don't feel well. William Shakespeare (or, more likely, Edward de Vere, Earl of Oxford, possibly paid and edited by William Shakespeare) wrote "Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player." There are numerous other well-known comments by assorted notables, comments to the effect that human life tends not to be very happy. Most psychologists will tell you that the majority of people are miserable most of the time.

The subject which was recently discussed over the dinner table (and perhaps too frankly for some of the younger members of the household) was whether sex and sexuality help to alleviate people's misery, or whether those elements of life add to misery and simply to "feeling bad." This is really something in which you have to add up things on both sides of the equation. Nature appears not to have originated sexuality as a means of making people feel better. Sex is there, probably, as an evolutionary phenomenon, and the sex act makes you feel good, because the pleasure is an inducement for you to engage in sex and therefore bring about reproduction.

For myself, it seems to me that sexuality leads to a lot of dissatisfaction, at the same time as it also makes possible a very satisfying kind of sharing. I tend to think it is pretty much a wash. Some women clearly think that sex produces more fear and discomfort than pleasure in their lives, and a lot of men most likely get a lot of pleasure out of feeling superior to women.

Maybe some Archive members would say that sex and sexuality degrade the human condition, from their own perspectives. But, at the same time, I would guess that even those who have had orchiectomies derive pleasure in one way or another from sexual differences between themselves and others.

Anyway, it would be interesting to hear some opinions on this. I thought that, of the message board I frequent this would be the one which would produce the most interesting responses.

In the classic 1938 film by Frank Capra, "You Can't Take It With You," starring Lionel Barrymore, Jimmy Stewart, Jean Arthur, and Edward Arnold, Lionel Barrymore teaches the others that no matter how bad things get, you'll always be all right if you just sit back and sing -

Polly Wolly Doodle

Oh, I went down south for to see my Sal

Sing Polly wolly doodle all the day

Oh, my Sal she am a spunky girl

Sing Polly wolly doodle all the day.

Chorus

Fare thee well, fare thee well

Fare thee well my fairy fay

For I'm goin' to Louisiana for to see my Susy-anna

Sing Polly wolly doodle all the day.

Oh, my Sal she am a maiden fair

Sing Polly wolly doodle all the day

With curly eyes and laughing hair

Sing Polly wolly doodle all the day.

I came to a river and couldn't get across

Sing Polly wolly doodle all the day

I jumped on a gator and thought he was a hoss

Sing Polly wolly doodle all the day.

A grasshopper sitting on a railroad track

Sing Polly wolly doodle all the day

A picking his teeth with a carpet tack

Sing Polly wolly doodle all the day.

Chorus twice

This worked for Lionel Barrymore and the others, so there may be something in it. Next time you have sex, try singing this song out loud at the same time. You and your partner will either have a good laugh, or your partner will never have sex with you again. In either case, a problem has been solved.

Beau Geste (imported) wrote: Sun Jan 21, 2007 3:50 pm Thomas Hobbes made the well-known observation that the life of mankind is solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short. Henry David Thoreau wrote that most men live lives of quiet desperation. Theodore Roosevelt once said that most of the world's work is done by men who don't feel well. William Shakespeare (or, more likely, Edward de Vere, Earl of Oxford, possibly paid and edited by William Shakespeare) wrote "Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player." There are numerous other well-known comments by assorted notables, comments to the effect that human life tends not to be very happy. Most psychologists will tell you that the majority of people are miserable most of the time.

The subject which was recently discussed over the dinner table (and perhaps too frankly for some of the younger members of the household) was whether sex and sexuality help to alleviate people's misery, or whether those elements of life add to misery and simply to "feeling bad." This is really something in which you have to add up things on both sides of the equation. Nature appears not to have originated sexuality as a means of making people feel better. Sex is there, probably, as an evolutionary phenomenon, and the sex act makes you feel good, because the pleasure is an inducement for you to engage in sex and therefore bring about reproduction.

For myself, it seems to me that sexuality leads to a lot of dissatisfaction, at the same time as it also makes possible a very satisfying kind of sharing. I tend to think it is pretty much a wash. Some women clearly think that sex produces more fear and discomfort than pleasure in their lives, and a lot of men most likely get a lot of pleasure out of feeling superior to women.

Maybe some Archive members would say that sex and sexuality degrade the human condition, from their own perspectives. But, at the same time, I would guess that even those who have had orchiectomies derive pleasure in one way or another from sexual differences between themselves and others.

Anyway, it would be interesting to hear some opinions on this. I thought that, of the message board I frequent this would be the one which would produce the most interesting responses.

Your clearly a glass half full type. Personaly I think a healthy sex life is one of the best parts of living. Feeling depression over life in general is not very uncommon but I think its all how you look at it.

I'm curious about how others view their sexuality. Your comment about men feeling superior to women is interesting but I don't agree or think that this is in any way the norm. Clearly there are those that want one or the other to be in charge and this goes from who initiates to mistress may I. All the hype on bondage and discipline for example. Frankly I never cared for any of that. My take on the reasons may not be correct. I've felt for example that at least with one woman I knew who expressed her desire to be "controlled" that she was embaressed by her desire for sex. Thus if she got her male partner to tie her up and "do her" it was not her "fault." My take on her issues were that she was immature. That whoever raised her instilled a great deal of guilt over her sexual wants and thus she came up with this scenario as a solution. Does that cover everyone? Probably not - I don't know. To be honest I'm not THAT interested. And I also don't get at all the idea that you need to beat me if you love me or deny me an orgasm etc etc etc. I guess what I'm saying is that those of us who are still functioning (or on HRT) hormonaly are wired to want sex and this is I think a good thing. Sexual release (orgasm) is a wonderfull feeling. Man "GOOD" is just not a good enough word.

So for me anyhow, sex is a big plus. I don't have any concept of being a superiour male and or dominating my wife. I do think its a plus if couples can not insist that it be all "male driven" as to when and how etc. I guess thats just my take on it getting into a rut. But in my life there has never been any "Bad" sex.

As to women saying sex mostly produced discomfort I think that having them be "allowed" to be more active, proactive or whatever and do sex in a way that pleases them is always a good scheme. Don't you think some of it is generational? My parents for example probably thought anyone doing any form of Oral sex was just beyond the pale. And when I grew up anything anal was just a horror show. Now kids do oral sex early on during dating and women using strapons on their male partners is the big turn on for couple sex. I'm not a prude but I do wonder what is next?

Anyone who does it out of duty and doesn't enjoy it should (my opinion) take some time to learn how to do it right. And yes, I guess I've been with women who don't know. It should be every man's thrill to help them find out about good sex.

Oh, my Sal she am a spunky girl

If you plan on contributing to the "Spunk" that "Sal" "contains" don't sing that song as you fuck her...

I very much think how you feel about sex and your ability to enjoy it has a lot to do with childhood experiences. If you are raised in a healthy environment and learned to love and respect yourself it could be wonderful. If your father was your first partner probably not wonderful. After much abuse I became very passive and had a difficult time telling men no. I had a lot of sex I did not want because I had trouble asserting myself. It was not about learning the mechanics of sex to enjoy it but about what was going on in my head.

Recently while making love albeit for a brief time I realized I still had some barriers to enjoying sex. I am absolutely terrified of anyone doing anything pleasing for me. I think I understand the beginnings of that panic. Another barrier for me stems from being raped. No matter how hard I would scrub my body before love making I would still feel dirty and bothered that my partner would kiss and lick my body. I felt bad for him when he would do it.

I have always been fascinated by people who could enjoy mutual pleasure. I have no concept of wanting someone to want me sexually. I do not think I will ever again attempt a relationship that might include sex.

mrt (imported) wrote: Sun Jan 28, 2007 10:12 am Your clearly a glass half full type. Personaly I think a healthy sex life is one of the best parts of living. Feeling depression over life in general is not very uncommon but I think its all how you look at it.

I concur!

I'm curious about how others view their sexuality. Your comment about men feeling superior to women is interesting but I don't agree or think that this is in any way the norm. Clearly there are those that want one or the other to be in charge and this goes from who initiates to mistress may I. All the hype on bondage and discipline for example. Frankly I never cared for any of that. My take on the reasons may not be correct. I've felt for example that at least with one woman I knew who expressed her desire to be "controlled" that she was embaressed by her desire for sex.

Bondage and "forced sex" fantasies exist because in the subconscious mind they allow one partner to dominate and the other to be absolved of any responsibility for having sex because they were "forced". It is not the idea of 'rape' so much as it is the idea of absolution from guilt over participating in a sex act.

mrt (imported) wrote: Sun Jan 28, 2007 10:12 am Thus if she got her male partner to tie her up and "do her" it was not her "fault." My take on her issues were that she was immature.

Not immature but repressed. This is usually from childhood experiences where discipline is the first parenting response to any perceived sexual response from the child whether it actually existed of not.

mrt (imported) wrote: Sun Jan 28, 2007 10:12 am That whoever raised her instilled a great deal of guilt over her sexual wants and thus she came up with this scenario as a solution.

Remember, it might be either real OR imagined on the part of the parent or guardian.

mrt (imported) wrote: Sun Jan 28, 2007 10:12 am Does that cover everyone? Probably not - I don't know. To be honest I'm not THAT interested. And I also don't get at all the idea that you need to beat me if you love me or deny me an orgasm etc etc etc.

Again, this is a subconscious effort to resolve the guilt over sex acts that was ingrained at a formative age. It does not always have to be the family, it can also arise from a response to peer group pressures. This can happen in hetero, homo, or bisexual scenarios.

mrt (imported) wrote: Sun Jan 28, 2007 10:12 am I guess what I'm saying is that those of us who are still functioning (or on HRT) hormonaly are wired to want sex and this is I think a good thing. Sexual release (orgasm) is a wonderfull feeling. Man "GOOD" is just not a good enough word.

It is deeper than hormonal. It is a survival instinct.

mrt (imported) wrote: Sun Jan 28, 2007 10:12 am So for me anyhow, sex is a big plus. I don't have any concept of being a superiour male and or dominating my wife. I do think its a plus if couples can not insist that it be all "male driven" as to when and how etc. I guess thats just my take on it getting into a rut. But in my life there has never been any "Bad" sex.

You have your family and social groups to thank for that.

mrt (imported) wrote: Sun Jan 28, 2007 10:12 am As to women saying sex mostly produced discomfort I think that having them be "allowed" to be more active, proactive or whatever and do sex in a way that pleases them is always a good scheme.

This is known as a 'double standard". It is characteristic of most ALL human social groups and familial traditions.

mrt (imported) wrote: Sun Jan 28, 2007 10:12 am Don't you think some of it is generational? My parents for example probably thought anyone doing any form of Oral sex was just beyond the pale.

The probably never talked about it if they didn't. It was not allowed in western societies.

mrt (imported) wrote: Sun Jan 28, 2007 10:12 am And when I grew up anything anal was just a horror show. Now kids do oral sex early on during dating and women using strapons on their male partners is the big turn on for couple sex. I'm not a prude but I do wonder what is next?

Probably more widespread acceptance of male-male or homsexual relationships.

mrt (imported) wrote: Sun Jan 28, 2007 10:12 am Anyone who does it out of duty and doesn't enjoy it should (my opinion) take some time to learn how to do it right.

Or try bondage scenes with a person whom they trust to absolve the subconscious guilt. If you do be sure to use a 'safeword'

mrt (imported) wrote: Sun Jan 28, 2007 10:12 am And yes, I guess I've been with women who don't know. It should be every man's thrill to help them find out about good sex.

What is worse is to be with one who does not know that she does not know. It is hard to get people to accept the things that I have just put into print.

I would have to have to concur that guilt, instilled at an early age is a very important factor in influencing the type of sexual expression which one finds acceptable.

My mother was strongly opposed to any form of sexual expression on my part. In very early childhood, if my hand happened to drop between my thighs, I would immediately hear "Hands !" from my mother If I kept either hand in my pocket too long, I'd elicit the same response from her.

Of course, all this REALLY accomplished was to pique my curiosity and draw my attention to those things between my thighs. Rebelling against her nagging led, in my early teens, to my masturbating openly in the boys' rest room at school, and less obviously in my pants with my hand under the desk, and to my playing "pocket pool" while walking along the street.

The idea of enjoying "forbidden fruit" provided a thrill at first, but later became very stressfull because, such nasty little quirks might be overlooked in a 13-year-old, but not in a young man. I became progressively more secretive about my sexual activities, not only from my dragon...er...mother, but from my acquaintances, especially after I realized that I was queer and my interest began to shift from masturbation to fellatio.

I didn't even begin to emerge from the closet until I was 29 years old and never discussed my interest in castration with anyone until I joined this forum.

A-1 (imported) wrote: Sun Jan 28, 2007 2:14 pm If you plan on contributing to the "Spunk" that "Sal" "contains" don't sing that song as you fuck her...

Smile, nice observation.

Beau Geste (imported) wrote: Sun Jan 21, 2007 3:50 pm Thomas Hobbes made the well-known observation that the life of mankind is solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short. Henry David Thoreau wrote that most men live lives of quiet desperation. Theodore Roosevelt once said that most of the world's work is done by men who don't feel well. William Shakespeare (or, more likely, Edward de Vere, Earl of Oxford, possibly paid and edited by William Shakespeare) wrote "Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player." There are numerous other well-known comments by assorted notables, comments to the effect that human life tends not to be very happy. Most psychologists will tell you that the majority of people are miserable most of the time.

The subject which was recently discussed over the dinner table (and perhaps too frankly for some of the younger members of the household) was whether sex and sexuality help to alleviate people's misery, or whether those elements of life add to misery and simply to "feeling bad." This is really something in which you have to add up things on both sides of the equation. Nature appears not to have originated sexuality as a means of making people feel better. Sex is there, probably, as an evolutionary phenomenon, and the sex act makes you feel good, because the pleasure is an inducement for you to engage in sex and therefore bring about reproduction.

For myself, it seems to me that sexuality leads to a lot of dissatisfaction, at the same time as it also makes possible a very satisfying kind of sharing. I tend to think it is pretty much a wash. Some women clearly think that sex produces more fear and discomfort than pleasure in their lives, and a lot of men most likely get a lot of pleasure out of feeling superior to women.

Maybe some Archive members would say that sex and sexuality degrade the human condition, from their own perspectives. But, at the same time, I would guess that even those who have had orchiectomies derive pleasure in one way or another from sexual differences between themselves and others.

Anyway, it would be interesting to hear some opinions on this. I thought that, of the message board I frequent this would be the one which would produce the most interesting responses.

Sex is fun because that helps create our replacements. However, because we are all experiments—temporary ones—sex and death are bound together. What happens after we create the next generation is beside the point. It is at best lagniappe.