Castration in Germany

[JesusA (imported)]

I recently discovered an article that feeds into a topic that has been frequently debated here on the Eunuch Archive: the efficacy, or lack thereof, of castration for sex offenders. The research seems to have been well conceived and carefully carried out. I'll give the printed abstract first and then discuss a couple of ideas from it. Then the topic is open for armed combat….

ABSTRACT

The medical and legal application of castration, including the forced castration of sexual offenders in Germany during the Nazi period from 1934-1945, is discussed in a cultural-historical introduction. A contemporary sample of 104 voluntary castrates (70% pedophiles, 25% aggressive sexual offenders, 3% exhibitionists, and 2% homosexuals) was examined. The survey was based on a representative follow-up investigation (response rate of 95%), covering approximately 20-25% of all orchidectomized sexual offenders between 1970 and 1980 in the Federal Republic of Germany. The results are contrasted with a comparison group who applied for castration during the same period but ultimately did not have the surgery.

Sexual interest, libido, erection, and ejaculation generally decreased in 75% of the cases within 6 months. Approximately 10% remained sexually active for years on a slightly diminished level, whereas 15% reported sexual outlets over a longer period of time, but they required more intensive stimulation for sexual release.

The post-operative recidivism rate for sexual crimes was 3% maximum, compared to 46% maximum for non-castrated applicants. Similar results between both samples were obtained in a special recidivism index which examined deprivation of liberty following approval of castration surgery. The social adjustment of the castrates, also seemed to be more favorable than that of the non-castrates. Of the castrates, approximaely70% were satisfied with the intervention, 20% were ambivalent and 10% were not satisfied.

Wille, R. & Beier, K.M. (1989) Castration in Germany. Annals of Sex Research, 2, 103-133.

Germany, Norway, Denmark, Switzerland and Czechoslovakia have made frequent use of castration for a variety of sexual offenses. This particular article is the most carefully crafted study of the impact that I have yet discovered, comparing offenders whose request for voluntary castration was granted with a matched set of offenders whose similar request was denied.

There are about 5,000 convictions for sexual offenses per year in Germany. Between 1970 and 1980, at least 770 convicted offenders applied for castration and about 400 were subsequently castrated. This means that about 1.5% of convicted sex offenders apply to be castrated and less than 1% are subsequently castrated.

One data table that the authors do not discuss adquately shows that 3% of the castrated sex offenders were later convicted of another sex offense, compared to 46% of the NON-castrated sex offenders. Not discussed from the table was that 25% of the castrated sex offenders were later convicted of some other crime, compared to 74% of those not castrated. Over 60% of both groups were employed as unskilled laborers or were unemployed at the time of their initial sexual offense and also at the time of the follow-up study (or their re-offense if they were in prison at the time of the follow-up).

Of interest was a table showing recidivism rates in other studies conducted on castration of sexual offenders in various countries in Europe. The ten studies followed 2,618 convicted sex offenders and give a combined recidivism rate of 2.25%, maximum. Some of the supposed re-offenders seem to have been convicted of a NON-sexual offense and at least two were arrested for, but not convicted of, a subsequent sexual offense.

Regardless of any specific numbers, style or quality of research, all of the studies point to a far lower rate of later sexual crimes by those who have been castrated than by those who have not been.

Spear chucking begins now….

[tugon (imported)]

I wonder if the success rates are partly due to the fact that they were voluntary. If you volunteer I would think the mindset of the individual is the desire to change. I would be interested if anyone knows a recidivist rate for men who were forcibly castrated vs voluntarily. Those are good numbers and makes you think of it as an option. I do not know how I would feel for it to become law for repeat sex offenders to be castrated. I do think if they request the surgery it should be performed. I do not think sentences should be reduced as an incentive if the offender is castrated.

[Stefan (imported)]

You can't be forced to be castrated in Germany. Its only voulntarly. So you won't find any numbers about forced castration in Germany - because that is not allowed as in most european countries.

[tugon (imported)]

You can't be forced to be castrated in Germany. Its only voulntarly. So you won't find any numbers about forced castration in Germany - because that is not allowed as in most european countries.

I did not mean to imply there were cases of forced castration in Germany or Europe. I was just wondeing if the fact they volunteered indicated a greater willingness to change and the very low rate of repeat offenses.

[JesusA (imported)]

I was just wondeing if the fact they volunteered indicated a greater willingness to change and the very low rate of repeat offenses.

Tugon raises an interesting question, and one that I don't think that Wille & Beier explored in their research. I know that they have continued with the project and published another paper on it in 1997 in the journal Sexuologie. I have not yet been able to obtain a copy of that paper, though I am trying to get it.

I will write to them asking if they have explored any difference in recidivism rate between those who sought voluntary castration and obtained it and those who sought it and were denied. This might be as interesting as the relationship between those who were castrated and the total population of those who were not.

If I get any response, I will let you know what they say.

[JesusA (imported)]

The post below was originally made by Eunuchist on a different thread, where it was off topic. It is much too valuable to lose. Please add to the discussion that he has begun.

Castration of a child molester might be a gratifying vengeance, albeit only temporarily, and it certainly wouldn’t stop him / her. It certainly is proven not to be an effective "treatment" or deterent to further offending.

I have to disagree with that. Castration of a sexual offender, on an elective basis (as has been suggested), should have absolutely nothing to do with "vengeance" in the first place; castration in these circumstances should also not be viewed as punishment, but as a proven and effective treatment and or a combination of treatments for those requesting it. Castration works in virtually all offenders by dramatically reducing and often eliminating their overpowering urges to obtain sexual gratification by commiting crimes; however, it will be far less effective if performed on a coercive basis (vengeance), simply because nowadays the offenders would be able to easily reverse the effects by obtaining androgen supplements and/or aphrodisiacs (though that could probably be countered by means of routine salivary hormone samples during parole). Many offenders are also "blinded" by all the testosterone in their system (several studies found a tendency toward high t-levels among serious criminals http://www.evoyage.com/BillsEssays/criminal.html) in order to associate properly with their victims, or even realize the extent of the damage they produce. F. inst. during rape, the sexual intensity of the act is usually so powerful that a rapist would not only ignore the cries and plea of their victims, they might also very well find it to be a cumulative "turn on".

A total of about 31 studies on the effectivity of surgical castration in sex offenders have been carried out in Europe and the U.S. during the last 60 years.

The studies (as listed in VT Cheney's "Castration: The Advantages and the Disadvantages"): Norway (Bremer 1959), Switzerland (Cornu 1973, Kolle 1934, Wolf 1934, Lemaire 1956), Germany (Langeluddeke 1963, Bunnsmann 1940, Heim 1980, Jensch 1944, Meywerk 1943, Ohm 1960, Renner 1979, Rodenberg 1942, Schultka 1971, Wille & Beier 1989), Holland (Hartsuiker 1948, Wijffels 1954, Fischer 1960), Sweden (Kinmark 1949, Oster 1966, Lindberg 1968), U.S.A (California Assembly Repors 1952), Czechoslovakia (Zverina 1989), Denmark (Sand 1940, Sturup 1953 & 1968 & 1969 & 1972)

The results: Total number of participants: 5248 men, with an average of about 170 per study. Average recidivism rate: 2,44 % , with a maximum of 11% and a minimum of 0.0%. The largest study, by Langeluddeke in 1963, involved a total of 1036 castrated offenders with a follow-up of 20 years, with a recidivism rate of only 2.3% vs. 84.0% before castration. Furthermore, none of the recidivism rates were of a violent character (in contrast, chemical castration studies end up with a slightly higher average recidivism rate of about 10%, with a max. of about 15% to 18%, probably due to poor compliance with treatment regimen. The recidivism rates for counseling are much higher).

If a clergy member who had taken vows of celibacy wanted it to help him not be so wired sexually would that be ok? I'm not of that faith but I'm not sure I would want to be the one to tell him no

My personal opinion is that it would definitely be "OK", just as much as it would be "OK" to get castrated for similar personal/religious reasons by any regular "wannabe", as seen here on the EA. Of course, any such acts would have to be carried out in secrecy, if only because the Pope haven't approved of that as of yet.. However, in a historical perspective, several of the early church leaders and bishops were eunuchs; and as far as I am concerned, they were perfectly able to carry out their duties as needed + the fact that they most certainly did not molested or raped people who confined in them. There are even a eunuch saint or a few.

If a priest who goes on thinking and dreaming of molesting altar boys (and gets interrupted by recurring sexual fantasies and distractions during the Service and prayer), seriously and honestly wants to get castrated, I don't see why not. They are not supposed to have children or have sexual relationships anyway. The odds are, most people would greatly benefit from that, especially including the priest in question (according to a study that I have read on the celibates, it turns out their sexual frustration at times becomes so unbearable that they eventually develop a severe mental distress, making them far less fit to carry on with their daily obligations). I also think that a supportive religious factor (faith) would make them happier as eunuchs, just as it were the case with the skopzy, who considered active sexuality as a hindrance toward a higher spiritual state and "true happiness".

[mrt (imported)]

The post below was originally made by Eunuchist on a different thread, where it was off topic. It is much too valuable to lose. Please add to the discussion that he has begun.

I have to disagree with that. Castration of a sexual offender, on an elective basis (as has been suggested), should have absolutely nothing to do with "vengeance" in the first place; castration in these circumstances should also not be viewed as punishment, but as a proven and effective treatment and or a combination of treatments for those requesting it. Castration works in virtually all offenders by dramatically reducing and often eliminating their overpowering urges to obtain sexual gratification by commiting crimes; however, it will be far less effective if performed on a coercive basis (vengeance), simply because nowadays the offenders would be able to easily reverse the effects by obtaining androgen supplements and/or aphrodisiacs (though that could probably be countered by means of routine salivary hormone samples during parole). Many offenders are also "blinded" by all the testosterone in their system (several studies found a tendency toward high t-levels among serious criminals http://www.evoyage.com/BillsEssays/criminal.html) in order to associate properly with their victims, or even realize the extent of the damage they produce. F. inst. during rape, the sexual intensity of the act is usually so powerful that a rapist would not only ignore the cries and plea of their victims, they might also very well find it to be a cumulative "turn on".

A total of about 31 studies on the effectivity of surgical castration in sex offenders have been carried out in Europe and the U.S. during the last 60 years.

The studies (as listed in VT Cheney's "Castration: The Advantages and the Disadvantages"): Norway (Bremer 1959), Switzerland (Cornu 1973, Kolle 1934, Wolf 1934, Lemaire 1956), Germany (Langeluddeke 1963, Bunnsmann 1940, Heim 1980, Jensch 1944, Meywerk 1943, Ohm 1960, Renner 1979, Rodenberg 1942, Schultka 1971, Wille & Beier 1989), Holland (Hartsuiker 1948, Wijffels 1954, Fischer 1960), Sweden (Kinmark 1949, Oster 1966, Lindberg 1968), U.S.A (California Assembly Repors 1952), Czechoslovakia (Zverina 1989), Denmark (Sand 1940, Sturup 1953 & 1968 & 1969 & 1972)

The results: Total number of participants: 5248 men, with an average of about 170 per study. Average recidivism rate: 2,44 % , with a maximum of 11% and a minimum of 0.0%. The largest study, by Langeluddeke in 1963, involved a total of 1036 castrated offenders with a follow-up of 20 years, with a recidivism rate of only 2.3% vs. 84.0% before castration. Furthermore, none of the recidivism rates were of a violent character (in contrast, chemical castration studies end up with a slightly higher average recidivism rate of about 10%, with a max. of about 15% to 18%, probably due to poor compliance with treatment regimen. The recidivism rates for counseling are much higher).

My personal opinion is that it would definitely be "OK", just as much as it would be "OK" to get castrated for similar personal/religious reasons by any regular "wannabe", as seen here on the EA. Of course, any such acts would have to be carried out in secrecy, if only because the Pope haven't approved of that as of yet.. However, in a historical perspective, several of the early church leaders and bishops were eunuchs; and as far as I am concerned, they were perfectly able to carry out their duties as needed + the fact that they most certainly did not molested or raped people who confined in them. There are even a eunuch saint or a few.

If a priest who goes on thinking and dreaming of molesting altar boys (and gets interrupted by recurring sexual fantasies and distractions during the Service and prayer), seriously and honestly wants to get castrated, I don't see why not. They are not supposed to have children or have sexual relationships anyway. The odds are, most people would greatly benefit from that, especially including the priest in question (according to a study that I have read on the celibates, it turns out their sexual frustration at times becomes so unbearable that they eventually develop a severe mental distress, making them far less fit to carry on with their daily obligations). I also think that a supportive religious factor (faith) would make them happier as eunuchs, just as it were the case with the skopzy, who considered active sexuality as a hindrance toward a higher spiritual state and "true happiness".

Your right on about being tight with God helping to make life good!

I want to thank you for looking up some facts and figures on this. Hell I have only my personal experience with low T to clue me into what it feels like to be castrated. I guess not having any sexual desire really does lower the amount of times a person goes out to have sex with under age people. I have to say its not a surprise but I'm glad there is data to back it up.

As to the "wannabe" Eunuchs. I'm kind of torn on that. As I said wishing to not be controlled by sexual desires is probably very common when your young and are being flooded with massive levels of Testosterone. I know many of us went through a period where we were ruled by our balls. What I hate to see is a young person wish so hard to have "control" that they have themselves castrated and learn that this is not just about sex drive. And worse yet there is now way back. And as to the wannabe types that want to be un-manned by some voodo ritual domination thing. I dunno. Sex is great stuff. I think some times people make it more complicated then it needs to be. I had a friend who told me how much she was into Bondage. Her issue was that she felt so much guilt / shame etc over sex that she wanted to be handcuffed (or whatever) and "done" so that it wasn't her "fault" for what happened. This concept just turned me off and I said in essence "grow up and accept the fact that you enjoy sex. Its not really that bad since so many others do it." So, I'm wondering out loud - are some eunuch wannabe types just a strong extension of that? In other words they feel that their sexual urges are so sin filled that the only way they can function is to not function sexually? Or am I spending way too much time thinking about this?