As some of you have guessed from reading my signature, I have a profound interest in various topics relating to eunuch health issues. After all, if we are going to live 10-15 years longer then intact males, we might as well enjoy those years in good health.

Anyhow, on 26 November my physician took another blood sample for testing. Today I received the results. Cholesterol is still high, so she is changing my medication from Lescol to Lipitor.

She also checked for serum testosterone, to see what the adrenal glands are doing. This time it was 28 ng/dl, down from 38 ng/dl of a couple of months ago. (I was castrated last May.)

In addition, the adrenal glands seem to be putting out 93 pg/dl total estrogens. A couple of months ago it was 68. And "normal" for a castrate is supposed to be less then 40.

I asked my physician what this all meant, and she said it was just normal fluctuations. But she feels it is important to keep monitoring my hormone levels. I pass on this information to you, and you can decide if you want to have yourself tested on a regular basis.

Greetings. First, estrogen and testosterone are formed from cholesterol. For that matter, estrogen is typically created from testosterone.

Now, either either 28 or 38 ng/dl of total testosterone is just plain normal for a eunuch. You can't expect to get much more from your adrenals. You don't know what the free T was, do you? That is the important one.

You were possibly misquoted regarding estradiol. Generally, the units are pg/ml. Is that what she meant? And what is this "total estrogens?" What all is being examined? Generally, just estradiol (by far the most potent estrogen) is examined. Other estrogens are much weaker by weight and are usually ignored.

93 pg/ml is high for males. Of course, besides all of the good qualities of estrogen, slight feminization can occur with high estrogen/low testosterone levels.

The good news is that with levels such as those, you probably will live a lot longer than standard males.

Those levels don't bother you, do they? My T level is comparable, and my E2 (estradiol) level is just a few times higher. I feel wonderful.

Keep us informed!

Love,

Kelly

Kelly_2 (imported) wrote: Sat Dec 01, 2001 11:37 pm Greetings. First, estrogen and testosterone are formed from cholesterol. For that matter, estrogen is typically created from testosterone.

Now, either either 28 or 38 ng/dl of total testosterone is just plain normal for a eunuch. You can't expect to get much more from your adrenals. You don't know what the free T was, do you? That is the important one.

You were possibly misquoted regarding estradiol. Generally, the units are pg/ml. Is that what she meant? And what is this "total estrogens?" What all is being examined? Generally, just estradiol (by far the most potent estrogen) is examined. Other estrogens are much weaker by weight and are usually ignored.

93 pg/ml is high for males. Of course, besides all of the good qualities of estrogen, slight feminization can occur with high estrogen/low testosterone levels.

The good news is that with levels such as those, you probably will live a lot longer than standard males.

Those levels don't bother you, do they? My T level is comparable, and my E2 (estradiol) level is just a few times higher. I feel wonderful.

Keep us informed!

Love,

Kelly

No, I am NOT bothered by these levels, it is a matter of scientific curiosity about what is going on in my body. I note your comments and next time will ask for "Free Testosterone". In what way is it different from "Serum Testosterone" which is what I was tested for? "Total estrogens" is the wording on the lab report, and yes they are in pg/dl. Thank you for your help.

Greetings. Let us compare your levels with those of intact male creatures. A fairly young, healthy male will have ranges of (according to Quest Laboratories):

Hormone; Conventional Normal Range; Optimal Range

Free Testosterone; 50-210; 138-210 pg/ml

Estradiol; 0-60; 15-30 pg/ml

Total Testosterone; 260-1000; 500-1000ng/dl

I need to translate the free testosterone in to ng/dl. Since 10 pg/ml = 1 ng/dl, we have free testosterone being:

Normal: 5 - 21 ng/dl and optimal: 14 - 21 ng/dl.

Note that the free testosterone is on the order of 1 or 2% of the total (a.k.a. serum) testosterone levels. This is because most testosterone is bound to the SHBG and therefore is useless to act. Only free testosterone can attach to T receptors and do its dirty work.

Now, total testosterone of 28 to 38 ng/dl is puny compared to normal and especially optimal male T levels. Even if your free testosterone were 10% of the total, it would be insignificant.

Regarding estrogen levels. I am still confused. Humans have three estrogens that normally occur: estradiol (specifically 17-beta-estradiol), estrone, and estriol. The estradiol is many, many times more powerful than the other two. So, if the total estrogens are counted, it seems rather meaningless. If you have lots of estrone and estriol but no estradiol, then no feminization will occur. If you have just the estradiol, and a normal amount, feminization can or will occur.

That being said, let us look at the worst case (or best, depending on bent) of all of your total estrogen is just the powerful estradiol. You have 93 pg/dl or about 100 pg/dl. This is 1 pg/ml. Now look at the reference ranges of estradiol for men: normal: 0-60 pg/ml and optimal 15-30 pg/ml. Yours is very teeny. Unhealthy, almost, because estradiol is needed for healthy bones, etc.

In short, your total T level is enviably low, but I am concerned about your estrogen. I still believe that the lab tech may have recorded the units incorrectly, and you need to have the "total estrogens" defined so that we can understand just what we are looking at.

Love,

Kelly

Kelly_2 (imported) wrote: Sun Dec 02, 2001 2:46 pm Regarding estrogen levels. I am still confused. Humans have three estrogens that normally occur: estradiol (specifically 17-beta-estradiol), estrone, and estriol. The estradiol is many, many times more powerful than the other two. So, if the total estrogens are counted, it seems rather meaningless. If you have lots of estrone and estriol but no estradiol, then no feminization will occur. If you have just the estradiol, and a normal amount, feminization can or will occur.

That being said, let us look at the worst case (or best, depending on bent) of all of your total estrogen is just the powerful estradiol. You have 93 pg/dl or about 100 pg/dl. This is 1 pg/ml. Now look at the reference ranges of estradiol for men: normal: 0-60 pg/ml and optimal 15-30 pg/ml. Yours is very teeny. Unhealthy, almost, because estradiol is needed for healthy bones, etc.

In short, your total T level is enviably low, but I am concerned about your estrogen. I still believe that the lab tech may have recorded the units incorrectly, and you need to have the "total estrogens" defined so that we can understand just what we are looking at.

Love,

Kelly

Boy is my face RED. Just re-read the reports. It is not 93 pg/dl of total estrogens, it is 93 pg/ML of total estrogens. AAARGH!! Brain must be going soft. Apologies.

So, OK, what does that CORRECTED reading of 93 pg/mL mean, especially as it went up from 68 pg/mL a couple of months ago? As I said, I am not concerened or worried, just scientifically curious about what is going on with my body. This is a learning experience, and I do want to thank you for your valuable feedback.

And maybe next time I should insist on total estradiol rather then total estrogens?

Greetings.

93 pg/ml of estradiol is a tad high for a "normal" intact male creature, but we don't know how much of your total estrogen was estradiol. We just need to have what we are looking at

Kelly_2 (imported) wrote: Sun Dec 02, 2001 2:46 pm defined so that we can understand

it.

That your T went down and your E went up may just be due to variations. You will need to see what you get a few months from now to determine whether you have a trend or just variations.

Since your total testosterone is so low , you do not need to worry about free testosterone. folks that do worry about it are generally worried about ensuring that they have masculinization and that they might be able to have weenie erections. Since that crap is none of our concern, total testosterone is the better quantity, because it shows what the body is producing, rather than what is being utilized.

Love,

Kelly

Andrew (imported) wrote: Sun Dec 02, 2001 5:18 pm Boy is my face RED. Just re-read the reports. It is not 93 pg/dl of total estrogens, it is 93 pg/ML of total estrogens. AAARGH!! Brain must be going soft. Apologies.

So, OK, what does that CORRECTED reading of 93 pg/mL mean, especially as it went up from 68 pg/mL a couple of months ago? As I said, I am not concerened or worried, just scientifically curious about what is going on with my body. This is a learning experience, and I do want to thank you for your valuable feedback.

And maybe next time I should insist on total estradiol rather then total estrogens?

After getting some info about this from an HRT specialist, the total estrogens mentioned above is likely the sum of estradiol and estrone. Estradiol is about 12 or more times stronger than estriol, so the potency of what you have is unknown. Ask for both estradiol and estrone if you can.

If one third of the total estrogen is estradiol, giving you 31 pg/ml, then you are in the middle of the normal range and at the edge of the optimal range. Good boy!

Keep in mind, though, that estrogen is not an evil chemical, it's really good stuff

In case you are wondering why I don't list my estrogen levels in my blood, it's because it would be useless. I not only take estradiol and estrone, but also other forms, such as equilin, and various other forms of natural estrogens as well as ethinyl estradiol, which is totally synthetic. These would not show up on a blood test. Also, ethinyl estradiol is about 50 times as strong as estradiol and 500+ times as powerful as estrone, so blood tests for total estrogens would simply tell me nothing.

Love,

Kelly

Kelly_2 (imported) wrote: Fri Dec 14, 2001 8:04 am Keep in mind, though, that estrogen is not an evil chemical, it's really good stuff

Kelly

About the only thing that would worry me about my estrogen levels is that they might affect "the eunuch calm". As for any feminization, I can take it or leave it, no big deal. Looking in the mirror after a bath, I can clearly see my eunuchoid features developing.

I stopped by my physician's office today, and she showed me the results of the blood tests I had last February.

Total Testosterone is now 45 ng/dl, it was 28 ng/dl last November and 38 ng/dl last August

Total estrogens is now 78pg/ml, it was 93 pg/ml last November and 68 pg/dl last August.

What makes this curious is that total estrogens for castrates is supposed to be below 40 pg/dl

Your reports and your point-of-view really make up the most helpful and basic aspect of this site. You certainly bring me back to reality. Thank you for the information.