First, I am a devout protostant Christian. I feel that my walk with God has been greatly hindered by my abnormally intense sex drive. As much shame as it gives me, I have been known to have fits of chronic, habitual masturbation, sometimes up to 5 or 6 times a day, although this amount is fairly rare. I want nothing more than to serve God with all of my life and to be fully devoted to Him and be fully pure of lustful desires. It's because of this that I've been seriously considering surgical castration. I don't believe God gave me such large amounts of testosterone for some special reason or to intentionally make my spiritual growth a struggle, and in one perticular verse, the Bible even promotes becoming a Eunuch. I do have one major concern though. Breasts. I have no desire to appear feminine or transgendered in any way. Is there any particular method people have used to eliminate post-op breast development with a minimum level of testosterone (i.e. below the libido causing level). Thank you all for any suggestions or recommenations you can provide.

Oh Man, where do I begin?

Maybe I should not.

Yes, I will, no don't, yes, I MUST...

Castration will not help this problem. You will only find another way to disobey. I think that you have been possessed.

Demons (http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Flauros)of sexual desire possess you. You need an exorcism, (http://religion-cults.com/deliverance/exorcism.htm) not a castration.

A-1

Vec (imported) wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2004 9:24 pm First, I am a devout protostant Christian. I feel that my walk with God has been greatly hindered by my abnormally intense sex drive. As much shame as it gives me, I have been known to have fits of chronic, habitual masturbation, sometimes up to 5 or 6 times a day, although this amount is fairly rare. I want nothing more than to serve God with all of my life and to be fully devoted to Him and be fully pure of lustful desires. It's because of this that I've been seriously considering surgical castration. I don't believe God gave me such large amounts of testosterone for some special reason or to intentionally make my spiritual growth a struggle, and in one perticular verse, the Bible even promotes becoming a Eunuch. I do have one major concern though. Breasts. I have no desire to appear feminine or transgendered in any way. Is there any particular method people have used to eliminate post-op breast development with a minimum level of testosterone (i.e. below the libido causing level). Thank you all for any suggestions or recommenations you can provide.

Unfortunately, there is no correlation between testosterone levels in the normal range and sexual activity, but there's only one study I found in the Medline database on the subject.

LHRH (Lutenizing Hormone Releasing Hormone) is what you might want to look into. It is given to female to male transsexuals to counteract the action of estrogen.

Since you are only 19, you probably should try three to six months on spironolactone or androcur or medroxyprogesterone before castration to make sure that castration is what you really want. The period is long enough to get the effects but short enough that the effects are non permanent. Since you are still growing, I would suggest chemical castration with a dose adjusted so that you lose the desire to masturbate but that your breasts are not tender excessively. Most men can carry an A cup bustline without notice.

Also, if you are overweight, gynecomastia (male breast development) is normal. As for breast development, it seldom exceeds an A or a B cup even when taking estrogen. The usual expectation when on female hormones is one to two cup sizes smaller than your female relatives. Your bust size may vary.

This question of course necessitates entering into the confusion of bra sizing, but an A cup means that your bust circumference is one inch larger than your band size (rib cage plus 5 if under 34 inches, plus 3 if over 34 inches) and a B cup is 2 inches larger. If you wear typical guy's clothes and don't get into the habit of wearing a corset or a bra, you have nothing to fear if you happen to develop an A cup. On the other hand, if you wear bras or form fitting shirts that have some curves or darts as most feminine clothing has, your breasts might be noticeable to the careful observer.

Grow a manly beard and keep your head hair trimmed. Don't buy shirts designed to show off your curves. These cues to your gender usually will outweigh your bust.

The Bible also promotes multiplication of the species and the stoning of persons wearing garments of mixed thread. The messages contained in the scriptures need to be evaluated for relevance to the present day for authors and scribes write and filter for their day. Please be careful when looking to the Bible for medical advice.

awen

P.S. Take a look at some of the female models of the world. You'll notice that some of their facial features are very, very masculine (for example, a square jaw, high hairline, etc.) and yet they are still seen as very attractive women. Despite what the fundamentalists christians and Bush say, every body is a mixture of masculine and feminine characteristics. This ascertion can be proven by simple observation and measurement of living persons. Variation, it's a good thing.

You might also wish to reflect on Gal 3:28: There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

Regarding St. Paul's writings in Corinthians about how a woman shall keep her hair long and a man his hair short and all those other things, I do believe, based on my personal experience regarding breast growth and clothes, that an A cup without a bra would satisfy St. Paul's dictates for such growth is still flat enough to hide under men's shirts and can be mistaken for good pects (although pectorals tend to be square and breasts perky and round).

A-1 (imported) wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2004 10:31 pm Oh Man, where do I begin?

Maybe I should not.

Yes, I will, no don't, yes, I MUST...

Castration will not help this problem. You will only find another way to disobey. I think that you have been possessed.

Demons (http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Flauros)of sexual desire possess you. You need an exorcism, (http://religion-cults.com/deliverance/exorcism.htm) not a castration.

A-1

Possessed by demons? May I suggest befriending a swineherder?

Aversion therapy in the form of the following might work better:

1. The CB3000 (a chastity device) can have a ring of stubs attached to it. This makes erections extremely painful.

2. Tuck and tape your genitals. Go to the transsexual and crossdresser sites for instructions, but it's best to experiment on your own. This keeps them out of your hands and limits your erections to just long simmers (lots of pain if you try to overdo it) .

If all else fails, join the Discordians: http://www.principiadiscordia.com. "When in doubt, f--- it; when not in doubt, get in doubt." However, but first I must sprinkle you with fairy dust.

awen

Thank you very much for your suggestions awen, I appreciate it. A-1, it appears as though you misread my post as, "please ridicule my most sacred beliefs." This being the internet, it's probably easy for you to dehumanize me or put me in some mindless hillbilly "bush vote" role. Please be aware of the fact that I am entitled to my own beliefs, you can be sure that I respect your faith in politics and inflated ego, or whatever you have. Once again, thank you awen, I will look into your suggestions. I hardly take aesthetic, gender based decrees in Bible as literal, I understand their significance, but not necessarily their direct cultural relavance today. My hair, for example, is actually quite long for the purpose of donating.

Possessed by Demons of Lust?!

A-1, what have you been prescribed? I want some, too.

He's 19, for God's sake...that, or a troll.

Either way, I'd suggest a chastity device of some kind. Rather pricey, but from what I read, they do work. We wouldn't want a complex going on there.

Also, my Auntie (who holds a degree in Divinity, as did her father, a reknown Minister) says that masturbation is not a sin and that any church that teaches that it is should be burnt to the ground and Minister shot.

God said, "Let us make man in our own image."

Now, unless you have the Skoptic view, God built the human body as is, with genitals. As a Christian, you must believe that God does NOT screw up. Being a horny teenager is a consequence of how God built the body. So, YOU go on and tell God HE screwed up. Someone let me know how good His aim is, when he chucks a thunderbolt at you.

But as I said, if masturbating really bothers you, then try the chastity route. If you live at home, recruit your parents to help. There are several methods, most of them quite Victorian:

NINE "CURES" FOR MASTURBATION by Priest Leigh Rutledge During the Victorian era, masturbation was the focus of extraordinary anxiety among doctors and parents; "curing" it became an obsession. The hysteria surrounding the subject was fueled by righteous moralists who regarded masturbation as a worse sin than adultery, and by quack doctors who claimed that the loss of a single ounce of semen through masturbation was more debilitating to the body than the loss of several ounces of blood. One Victorian-era physician listed no fewer than 47 dire consequences of the act. Masturbation was believed to cause every thing from acne and epilepsy to mental retardation and death. Hoping to eradicate this "scourge of young manhood," parents subjected their children to dozens of torturous cures.

1. CASTRATION Recalcitrant young masturbators were sometimes castrated to annihilate their sex urge. In some cases, the entire penis was amputated and voodooistic doctors used nightmarish reasoning to console the anguished parents: it was better to cut off a boy's genitals entirely than let him go insane or die from masturbating too much.

2. STRAITJACKET PAJAMAS Fearing that boys might masturbate in bed after the lights were turned out, some parents turned to pajama tops modeled after straitjackets. A boy's arms were laced into heavy sleeves that were then tied around the back of his body. Other parents gave new meaning to the admonishment "Keep your hands where I can see them," and simply tied their children's wrists to the bedposts every night.

3. ERECTION ALARMS These were expensive and complicated devices. A flexible metal band was secured around the base of the penis and then attached, with wires, to a small box on the nightstand. When an erection occurred, the penis expanded, and set off a loud electronic alarm. Parents sleeping in another room were notified that their son was on the verge of "abusing" himself - or of having a nocturnal emission, which was considered just as harmful.

4. ENEMAS Some physicians preached that masturbation was caused by constipation or by a build-up of unhealthy germs in the bowels. They recommended that parents give their children daily morning enemas with ice water.

5. INFIBULATION Some parents had their sons' foreskins fastened shut with rings, clasps, or staples to prevent erection and masturbation. In extreme cases, the entire foreskin was sewn shut; only a tiny opening was left for urination.

6. BREAKFAST CEREALS Many Victorian physicians believed that the key to preventing masturbation was good nutrition. With that in mind, they developed a variety of wholesome foods specifically designed to purge a child's body of unhealthy impulses. The American physician and health food pioneer John Harvey Kellogg introduced a new line of such foods at his sanitarium in Battle Creek, Michigan. They were called Kellogg's Breakfast Cereals.

7. DIE ONANIEBANDAGEN Literally "the masturbation bandage," this was developed in Germany and endorsed by noted sexologist Havelock Ellis. It consisted of a little metal suit of armor that fitted snugly over the penis and testicles and was attached to a lock. The parents of course kept the key.

8. SPIKED COCKRINGS Cockrings with tiny razors or needle-like spikes on the inside were sometimes fitted around the base of a boy's penis to prevent him from attaining an erection.

9. GOOD CLEAN LIVING "There is only one way in which a boy can ever break the habit of self-abuse," claimed the nineteenth-century sex guide, Light on Dark Corners. "He must determine to do it and he must be dead-in-earnest about it. The one supreme factor in the fight is a determined will. A boy can control his morbid curiosity about sex subjects if he will think on other matters. He can drive out the memory of old base pictures and stories and suggestions if he will simply determine to set his mind on the subjects that are fine and clean. And remember, there is no greater single means of help in the fight than to try definitely to help someone else in the same battle. It is wonderful how we get new strength when we try to help a friend break a bad habit that may also be afflicting us. So, pitch in and give a lift to the other fellow, for your own sake as well as for his." (Editor: Honest folks, this is exactly what the book says, word for word!)

And last but not least, if you're going to Hell for masturbating, and it bothers you that much, keep in mind that probably 8 out of 10 boys will be there with you, the ninth for being a liar; the tenth is probably a eunuch.

Vec: Sorry you've gotten some pretty flippant responses. You have email turned off, so I couldn't contact you privately. I'm a deacon in my church. Email or private message me, and we can talk. You'll be OK, trust me.

Terry

...

Vec (imported) wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2004 9:24 pm I feel that my walk with God has been greatly hindered by my abnormally intense sex drive.

...masturbation, sometimes up to 5 or 6 times a day,

... I want nothing more than to serve God with all of my life and to be fully devoted to Him and be fully pure of lustful desires. ...

.

Gee at your age, your body is physically ready, willing and more than able to reproduce and it wants to do that more than logical dictates. . .

What you need to do is to work around those desires. You can't stop the release of sperm (at night or sometimes by hand)... This is the body God gave you. You need to find a way not to remove the temptation or to deal with the physical reality but to replace sexual desires with other actions...

Look to positive methods rather than negative methods like removal of body parts or taking medicines to increase your devotion. These can be good deeds, exercise, intellectual persuits. And then recognize that as the saying goes "you flesh is weak" and learn to deal with failures. TAnalyze each failure by determineg a whay not to encourage that activity. Then change your behaviour. It's like stopping smoking, you need to find something to do with your hands to stop smoking. If (for example) laying in bed at night makes you horny, then try to fall asleep reading a book. If idle time makes you think of your dick and it gets hard, then work at not being idle and supressing the emotion. But remember, this is the way your body is built and devoting yourself to good deeds and love of god is not inconsistent with the function of your body.

There is forgiveness and redemption - If dealing with temptation was easy, we'd all be saints...

But please don't start taking medicines or doing other things that years from now you might regret.

I hope this helps.

Well first of all Vec you are much to young to even think of castration you have a full life in front of you and their are many more problems if this is done at your age.But i am sorry you wernt treated very kindly i just hope my gay and transgender friends are never treated this way and as i have said we need to respect EVERYONE here.

Vec,

Hey,

Seriously. What you have is not a problem. The problem is with what folks have told you.

No kidding, an exorcism might help. At least it will keep you from masturbation for an evening or two, and it might amuse your nutty religious friends.

So tell me. Masturbation. Is it a sin if somebody else does it to you, or is that a sexual act?

Maybe the problem is not with you but with the crowd that you hang out with. A good exorcism might scare the hell out of them. If that happens then maybe they won't come back.

I predict that a DECENT exorcism will change your life. It worked for Linda Blair, and it also got her an academy award nomination.

Vec, I have seen 80 & 90 year old men in a nursing home masturbating. At least they were not raping the bedfast. Neither were they shortening their lives in any way. Of, course, I cannot say that it did not make them senile, but I seriously doubt that it did, they would have been senile anyway.

Seriously, you are not spreading disease, you are not molesting children, you are not raping people, perhaps you should start looking a some nice, horney young girl who obviously masturbates and see if the two of you cannot work something out.

Ask your pastor if you and a girl get married and masturbate each other if it is a sin. Maybe then HE will suggest an exorcism...

But seriously, most conservative fundamentalists hold that the marriage bed is sacred. I other words, you can have whatever sex and do whatever act that is mutually pleasing to you if you are married. That is why they have their asses in a knot about Gay marriage. Whatever you do, never let one of these good folks come into your bedboom and crawl in bed between you and you mate and critque your sexual pleasure, even if your mate is only your right hand.

Vec, it is YOU that is NORMAL and it is THEM that is FUCKED up...

...And always remember, you heard it here first. If you question my word, please do find yourself a non-denominational counsellor who does not double as a preacher on Sunday, and spend some quality time with him or her.

Whatever you do, don't go a-BINDING YOUR POOR GENITALS UP IN A CHASTITY DEVICE OR MAIN-LINING ESTROGEN. Be happy that you are not a Eunuch and go celebrate life! YES! CELEBRATE, NOT CELEBATE...

Now go have some sex, it does a BODY GOOD!

You can masturbate 3-5 times a day if you like, but some tight-bodied young, healthy chick balling you once or twice a day, with multiple orgasms will make you forget that you ever EVEN considered castration.

Otherwise, go read about Flauros in my first post, because it is not GOD who wants to deny you sex.

A-1