In today's news:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/3621898.stm

Angry eunuchs in the southern Indian state of Tamil Nadu are protesting against a state-run insurance company which they allege has refused to issue an insurance policy to a eunuch.

A spokesman for the firm, the Life Insurance Corporation, has denied the allegation.

The eunuch, Janaki, says she was surprised when the company turned down her request for insurance cover.

She alleges that her request was rejected because of the ambiguity about her gender.

Discrimination

Janaki makes a meagre living by predicting people's future in a village near the town of Vellore in Tamil Nadu. She is deeply angry at the moment.

She argues that the insurance firm's policies cover damage and loss to sheep, cows, crops and even buildings.

She wants to know that if she is eligible to vote, and have a ration card, why can't she get insurance cover?

A spokesman for the Life Insurance Corporation at their headquarters in Bombay (Mumbai) has denied that eunuchs will not be sold insurance.

But a senior official who requested anonymity told the BBC that, according to the company rules, only men or women can apply for insurance.

He said that, going strictly by the rules, applications from eunuchs are normally rejected.

Janaki says if the matter is not sorted out within three months, she will go to court.

Living on the margins

There are estimated to be about 500,000 eunuchs, hermaphrodites and transvestites in India.

It is traditionally believed that their presence protects against evil, and many earn a living by collecting cash gifts from people during marriages and births.

But now with the decline in their traditional roles, most eunuchs are forced to work as commercial sex workers.

In recent times, there have been some positive tales too - some eunuchs have contested elections and entered the public arena.

But these success stories are rare, and it will still be a long time before the eunuchs can expect some sort of social acceptance.



Kelly

Bummer Kelly,I guess we are a little better off here. My HMO just accepted a request for an appointment from me.I'm working toward castration for now.This Doctor is gender sensitive,so I'm pretty excited about that.2nd Laser beard removal tomarrow.Hugs,Leona

Kelly,

I am a Eunuch but genetically Male. You maybe transgendered but you are gentically Male. And I am fully insured in my country of origin.

Insurance companies in the United States insure by genetic identity. You may claim to be female but there are records, even you don't know about, that will prove your genetic identity. If you lie on your application, that is grounds for rejection.

Your story about an Indian Eunuch refers to the subject as "she". This is genetically incorrect if "she" was castrated. Other than castration, I will not comment.

Best wishes,

Kelly,

Robby (imported) wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2004 4:15 pm I am a Eunuch but genetically Male. You maybe transgendered but you are gentically Male. And I am fully insured in my country of origin.

Insurance companies in the United States insure by genetic identity. You may claim to be female but there are records, even you don't know about, that will prove your genetic identity. If you lie on your application, that is grounds for rejection.

Good day, Robby.

My insurance company only knows me as female. My birth certificate lists me as female. Regarding genetics, I have never had a karyotype test done, so there is no record anywhere of my "genetic sex." There are commonly XX, XY, XXY, X0, XXXY, and up to fifty others, plus mosaicisms of combinations, where some cells may have XY or whatever and others have XX or XXY or whatever.

Most places in my country seem to go by the birth certificate as the ultimate decision on sex. Doctors, on the other hand, often go by phenotypical evidence (penis or vagina, for instance). It would be silly for me to state that I am male and then have a complete physical, or to undergo a surgery that requires catheterization. They may get quite upset when I am under and they attempt to apply a catheter and then find that they have the wrong equipment because I lied to them.

Regarding eunuchs and intersex people, in Australia and other places, there are three genders--male, female, other. The third option is even listed on the birth registration:

http://www.rgo.act.gov.au/forms/bdm/BRS ... ent_V2.pdf

And one may get an "X" for gender in their passport. New Zealand offers the "-" marker.

And in gender enlightened places, such as various locales and companies, male and female are determined by gender, or gender identity. Gender (gender identity) is between the ears, not the legs, and the only sure way to know a person's gender is to ask them.

In such places, your gender is what you state it is and how you present yourself.

In my situation: birth certificate states "female"; phenotype is female; identify and live full-time as female, it would be a lie for me to state that I am "male."

Robby (imported) wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2004 4:15 pm Your story about an Indian Eunuch refers to the subject as "she". This is genetically incorrect if "she" was castrated. Other than castration, I will not comment.

Best wishes,

The author clearly wrote the gender correctly. The eunuch considers herself a "she" and presents as a "she." Therefore, according to the Associated Press Stylebook recommendations:

The Associated Press Stylebook recommendations for covering transgender people, under "sex changes" in the 2000 edition:

"Use the pronoun preferred by the individuals who have acquired the physical characteristics (by hormone therapy, body modification, or surgery) of the opposite sex and present themselves in a way that does not correspond with their sex at birth.

If that preference is not expressed, use the pronoun consistent with the way the individuals live publicly."

Janaki should be considered a "she" and her gender pronoun was written correctly.

Hugs,

Kelly

Hi Kelly,

Can you answer this question honestly to all here who read the forums? Genetically, what gender were you born? And today, what genetic gender are you?

Take care,

Robby (imported) wrote: Sun Sep 05, 2004 3:25 pm Hi Kelly,

Can you answer this question honestly to all here who read the forums? Genetically, what gender were you born? And today, what genetic gender are you?

Take care,

Robby,

I think we all know the answer to your question. It's impossible to change one's genetic makeup (at least for now it is). What the issue here is the gender identity of the people involved. If a person is to take steps to modify their body (hormonaly, surgically, etc, etc) to become male or female, and they live and work in the desired role, then the gender they choose is the one that should be recognized.

For those that do not know, transsexuals have a birth defect. That defect cause the brain to be wired differently from the physical aspects of the body. As good as modern science is, they can not rewired the brain to fix it. So that is why we take the steps to correct it.

Throughout the early part of my transition, my insurance company did not cover anything related to female care from doctors. Once I made the legal change I am now covered for most of my treatment (less elective surgery which most insurance companies do not cover anyway).

I think Janaki is being treated unfairly with regards to insurance. She should be able to recieve it like anyone else.

Also, the state of health care these days (in the USA) is really being controlled more by insurance companies. No longer can a doctor reccomend treatment for someone and have the insurance pay for it. If it is not approved by insurance, you either do without or pay for it out of your pocket.

Robby,

Christina (imported) wrote: Sun Sep 05, 2004 6:37 pm Also, the state of health care these days (in the USA) is really being controlled more by insurance companies. No longer can a doctor reccomend treatment for someone and have the insurance pay for it. If it is not approved by insurance, you either do without or pay for it out of your pocket.

Christina,

None of this is easy. Life is not easy, fair, or logical. We make choices and eventually live by those choices. We may not like the outcome or the circumstances surrounding our choices, but we move on.

Insurance companies are not controlling the health care industry. You and I like to receive our worth when it comes to payday. Doctors want fair pay and companies too, like fair reimbursement. Everyone involved in the health care industry want fair reimbursement.

Let us begin with the medical industry. Doctors work for large health care providers. They want fair return on their investment, sometimes called ROI (return on investment). The doctor wants a fair wage for all the effort invested in education and training. The investor of the health care provider wants fair return for the investment in facilities and infrastructure.

Let us look at the health insurance industry. They are obligated to pay fair wages to all their employees and as public companies; they are obliged to provide a fair return to the investors. In order to meet their obligations, they set cost of premium to meet persistency goals. Now, if the company experiences high exposure, premium must increase to meet that exposure. Sense a spiral or vortex in the works here?

Let us examine human nature. We want everything we can get. If we purchase health care insurance, we want the policy to pay for all our medical needs without regard to contribution of our physical fitness. Sure, we pay the premium, why can't the insurance company pay.

Now let us examine the above… We want good health care, the doctor wants good pay, the health care provider wants fair return on their investment, shareholders want equitable ROI, and we have to live with the view of public opinion that insists the insurance companies control health care and the expensive cost of health insurance.

I am not saying I have all the answers and I am not saying all criteria for the state of our health care is written above. There are an infinite number of stimuli for the current state of health care and the cause of high insurance premiums is something we must work out. In fact, it is up to us to encourage change.

If we want insurance companies to pay for all our requests, then it is our personal responsibility to affect change. Do it any which way you want but do it.

Please do not blame a single entity, blame them all

A friend of mine reports that her trans roomie has been let go of her job because the insurance company threatened to pull coverage for the entire shop. I don't have all the details yet, but it could be a ploy on the part of the shop as an excuse or the shop was just tired of dealing with her absences due to some unrelated court issues. It's one of those shops that manufactures parts for the gov't.

The last insurance I had was my parents,which my mother cancelled once I started transitioning as a retalitory action.

awen

So ah Robby,where did you say you reside,now that you've got us girls upset? Do you feel pretty swell now? Do you have something possitive for us here,we are all struggling as it is.All the Best,Leona Don't be upset with the state of life and/or business. These are issues we face, and must stand up to them, and let people how we feel, and fight for what we want. If that means voting for the Democratic party's nominee in the U.S. election, than so be it.

Oh, by the way... I didn't mention I live in the Frozen North, sometimes referred to as the Twin Cities (found in Minnesota, United States of America).

Lets stand together and get rid of those who openned Pandora's Box...

Robby (imported) wrote: Mon Sep 06, 2004 5:11 am Don't be upset with the state of life and/or business. These are issues we face, and must stand up to them, and let people how we feel, and fight for what we want. If that means voting for the Democratic party's nominee in the U.S. election, than so be it.

Oh, by the way... I didn't mention I live in the Frozen North, sometimes referred to as the Twin Cities (found in Minnesota, United States of America).

Lets stand together and get rid of those who openned Pandora's Box...

Well Robby,I think your right,I'm to quick here to judge and I apoligise.I'm doing this for all to see,not hide my apoligy on some private post.I can dish and I can take it when I'm wrong.This tort reform , you know what I mean, should help our Medical World.Maybe they "the Doctor's" :can go on to help people that need help without worrying about

getting sued for silly problems that are conjured up by some hot-shot lawyer.

Thanks for everything you do,Leona Lee