In a programme devoted to family planning issues, the English language service on Dutch Radio has just broadcast a programme called "A Mans Right to Choose".

It pointed out that before the female pill arrived, "family planning" was largely

a male issue with condoms/rubbbers and vasectomy as the available routes open to men and women depending on where the male lived.

At the same time that the female pill was devised public scientists were also working on "a male pill" but progress was slow in early years.

Recently public trials have been going on to reduce testosterone and sperm count and one of the trials quoted in the programme was in Manchester, England. Jim who had had an implant put in his upper arm owned up to enjoying being on the experiment and found other men did too.

The programme spoke of condoms/rubbers also and how that sales have risen enormously and that new and exciting types are always being devised.

The presenter noted that now if a young Dutch woman has a condom in her handbag she is appreciated as taking concern for her own health and body.

In the past, such a woman would have been thought of less favourably!

"A Mans Choice" covered male sterility and Robert an American descibed somewhat graphically his vasectomy and his after pains and depression.

This was no Eunuch programme but there are precious few programmes that discuss enabling male sterility. An amusing moment for me in the show was when a Dutch pharmaceutical company representative said that whenever they have public meetings talking on the theme, there are always alot of eager young men attending. This programme was mainstream but had insight.

Full marks to the "A Mans Choice" production team. Maybe next time you can discuss Chemical Castration also. For men over 35 in the Netherlands vasectomy is popular, they said and yet until a few years ago was illegal in France!

Possibly you can catch it again either in a repeat or via Real Radio.

The programme was broadcast at 13.30 UTC/GMT on the English service of

Radio Netherlands on February 25th 2004.

Sac_mec i can only hope that some day thair will more doctors willing to listen to us and support some of our wishes.Maybe birth control is the first step who knows

Sac_mec (imported) wrote: Thu Feb 26, 2004 9:57 am For men over 35 in the Netherlands vasectomy is popular, they said and yet until a few years ago was illegal in France!

That's rich.

Women have been able to get abortions for years in France. I know RU486 underwent trials there.

But now little Muslim girls cannot wear their head scarves.

Those poor French people running the country are really crazy, no?

A-1

The head scarf issue has been exploited. It is not anti-Muslim.

France separates the function of State and Church and is secular.

Not only have headscarves been banned but any large crucifixes or Jewish head caps are also illegal - the action is not anti Muslim, it is pro Secular state. (I wish we divided Church from State in the UK also).

I wasn't intending to bash France but to point out that the Netherlands has

high male support for Vasectomy among men over 35 and I didn't know this before the programme told me. It does fits in with the Dutch outlook though of "keeping things tidy" and being very aware of environmental issues, good for them! Perhaps we could return to discussing "A Mans Right To Choose"?

Men don't have many options of choice open to us concerning male sexual issues, do we?

I'm having problems posting, so I'll be brief incase this doesn't post. Although I have no real biological need to, I've recently been attempting methods of self sterilization. Perhaps my reason for this is an underdeveloped, underexplored desire along the lines of what is discussed here?

There is a yahoo group called 'male contraceptives' that discusses a wet heat method for redeucing sperm. Something that I tried per the suggestion of an online aquaintance. However, I took the temperature of the water to the extreme (straight hot from the tap) with a brocolli gumband around my sac. And I increased the soaking time to almost an hour each time. I did this twice a day for two days until I happened across information that said extreme heating can reduce testosterone levels dramatically.

This happened about 3 to 4 weeks ago, and I'm just now starting to get some sense of libido back. I've spoken with someone who had done some silmilar damage to their testicles, and he said it took a month or two to recover and regain decent erections, libido, etc. To make a long story short, I pretty much lost the ability to have a good erection, and pretty much the desire to have one. LoL. My testicles and penis seemed to shrink by a third. I thought I was seeing things until a friend confirmed the same. And the three times I was able to masturbate to orgasm, the ejaculate was very thin, weak and clear. Something I've never experienced before.

According to the information I've gathered so far, heating the testicles is a viable, practical, and proven way to reduce sperm production and create a sterile male. I agree that there should be more options for male contraceptives. And although I do not have sex with women, or even men for that matter, I intend to continue practicing self sterilizing techniques as soon as I can gather a little more information.

Part of my desire for this is because I have a very close childhood friend who bacame sterile after years of taking steroids for a life long breathing problem. We've talked many many times about it, and I believe it would bring him much comfort to know I am also sterile. He's admitted that, and it would make no difference to me. Over the years of our friendship, while growing up, we also began smacking each others testicles while wrestling around and through the normal fun of being an adolescent. And although I've stopped smacking his testicles (as he doesn't like it at all) I've gained some kind of enjoyment over the years, and he continues to 'smack my sac' as it were, whenever he feels the desire. Sometimes it's more than just a smack, but it's very entertaining to him, and I have to admit that it's sometimes very enjoyable (especially the 'afterglow') and almost always funny to us both, afterwards. I know he'd like to do some real damage to my testicles, to a small degree, and has admitted that. And since I have a fairly recent castration fantasy, I continue to allow him his fun for now. LoL.

These are a couple sites about male sterility through heating methods. If I'm able to contiune posting, I'll try to post the others I find, and to not be so 'all over the place' about what I'm saying. I just thought this might not go through. But thanks for this great board, and all the great info. It's nice to have a place to be able to talk about this, and feel somewhat normal in the process:)

http://www.malecontraceptives.org

http://www.sisterzeus.com/men.html

I was able to post! Here is part of the page on the first link I just posted. A couple of the links don't work. But if you check around on the ones that do, you will find information about early research done using heat methods for male sterility.

--Unfortunately, there are not many contraceptive options available for men. Condoms and vasectomy is basically what the choices boil down to. There are some experimental ones I hear about from time to time. One is a hot water treatment, hard boil those huevos!! ;o) Sorry couldn't resist. For more info.... Another option in the works, which sounds really great, I read about it in Oct 99 Esquire magizine. for more info.... And recently I have heard of a herbal contraceptive for men. I have not heard a whole lot about it, but have been aware of the plant for some time. I do know that tons of research has been done on this herb. And it is opening up new contraceptive options for both men and women. The plant is called Neem. For more information...

Other sources of information:

Boston Women's Health Book Collective ~ Male Contraception Information Project (MCIP)

FRONTIERS IN NONHORMONAL MALE CONTRACEPTION: A CALL FOR RESEARCH --

About circumcision in Europe.

It varies country by country in Europe. Let's take an example. In Finland circumcision is very uncommon while in Albania or Kosovo circumcision is mandatory.

I was circumcised by my own request 5 years ago. There was no medical reasons. The trick was to find right doctor. Which wasn't that difficult.

Still I do not agree with infant circumcisions. As this decision must be made by foreskin owner not by parent. As person grows up and have to live his whole life with consequences of parent decision which might not like to him every case.

If I was circumcised as an infant I was most probably very anti circ now.

I realise that possibly I could be drifting way off subject in raising the subject of malle circumcision half way through a post . If the subject is raised (and accepted as "on subject") maybe it needs a separate new subject header here in the Health Forum.

Meanwhile if you'd like to get more information, follow some links which are international and contribute to polls in a group devoted to this subject alone,

I can suggest: http://groups.yahoo.com./PROCIRC/

It seems like a good site to explore this subject and read up more; enjoy

your walk getting there, I hope my hyperlink works, the group does exist, if you get a "Document not found" message, try writing down the url address and then logging into Yahoo and trying again.

The problem I have with most methods of male contraception (besides vasectomy) is that they influence sex drive or function (the female pill does the same to women). In the 70's, Organon (a pharmaceutical company) experimented with an anabolic steroid (DecaDurabolin). They gave subjects 500mg per week for 5 years. Within 13 weeks (the time required for maturation of sperm) the subjects were sterile. The one's that stayed with the study remained sterile for 5 years (they also lost fat and put on some nice muscularity). After cessation of the therapy they returned to pre-treatment sperm count within 13 weeks. The trouble was that many of the subjects had dramatically reduced sexual sensitivity during the therapy, which made it difficult for them to achieve satisfying erection or reach orgasm. I was given this hormone for some years after my testicular injury (age 19 to 24). I noticed it took a little longer to get an erection and to orgasm. My testicles shrunk dramatically (but afterward they grew back). I still had enough sperm volume to have a satisfying orgasm, but I was young then. I was very strong, lean and muscular. My physical stamina also greatly improved. I didn't have any other side effects.

Lowering sperm count by cooking your balls will also lower testosterone and sex drive as you have found out. That'll really splash cold water on your fun. But low testosterone will also weaken your muscles, reduce your physical stamina, cause you to gain fat weight, lower your desire for physical activity, make you prone to depression and affect your health in other ways.

You might talk to a doctor about exploring some other methods of reducing your sperm count. I say that like it's easy to find a doctor that will work with you on these things ...

DocT

DocT (imported) wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2004 1:53 am Lowering sperm count by cooking your balls will also lower testosterone and sex drive as you have found out. That'll really splash cold water on your fun. But low testosterone will also weaken your muscles, reduce your physical stamina, cause you to gain fat weight, lower your desire for physical activity, make you prone to depression and affect your health in other ways.

You might talk to a doctor about exploring some other methods of reducing your sperm count. I say that like it's easy to find a doctor that will work with you on these things ...

DocT

As I'm new to so much of this, (well probably all of it except for the nut slapping and quest to become sterile just for the heck of it) it seems like every time I read something or run across a piece of information, a light bulb goes off in my head. It seems like a puzzle that's fitting together, and I'm getting answers to questions I don't remember asking.

The thing about my experience with heating my testicles the way I did, that seems to shed some new light everyday that I just can not get past, is how I felt, when for the first time since purberty, my sexual desire and masturbation was reduced. So many things are starting to click, and make sense to me with all this. For instance, since my incident with the loss of libido, everyday I can't help but thinking how alive I felt. It's so hard to explain!

Ever since I started puberty, I've pretty much been a compulsive masturbator. Well, I know I am now! For some reason I've never been interested in 'sex', as it were with other people. But I can't even remember the last day I went without masturbating at least once! Since those two weeks or so that I wasn't literally just beating my meat, all these things are clicking in my head. Like even just talking about masturbating with friends, and having them tell me I was putting too much time into it. Having everyone joke about how often I did it. I just thought people were having a joke to say in response. Now that I look back, I now know that I'm a compulsive masturbator, and that a lot of those people were serious when I replay the way the were telling me that. And after searching through information about all this, I now see that I am definately hypersexual. I now know one at least one of my close relatives is, and I also know now after talking with my mother, that my father was.

Speaking of which, my mother and I have had a few fairly serious conversations about this just recently. All of which again is making me rethink so much of my history. We talked about having 'sex on the brain', and touched upon how much time I used to spend by myself (in the bathroom, in my bedroom, in the basement, in the garage, etc.) when I was a teenager and even up until now. (I'm 32) And I remember the things she used to say to me, but they never registered. I thought I was so covert and getting away with it. She used say things like, 'that boy needs neutered' or 'if you don't find something else to do for a change, I'm going to cut them off while your sleeping!'. I'm telling you, I never understood what she meant! It's only recently that I'm putting two and two together.

Since we have touched on this now, she told me knew exactly what I was doing and that it was o.k., but knew I had a real problem with my interest and frequency with of it. She also said that she had talked to psycholigists and doctors without my knowing, but could find absolutely nothing to change my behavior. And she said in a round about way that she was serious about cutting my balls off, and would have done so had the option been there. She told me of her own mother telling of a brother and at least one uncle that were castrated in europe many years ago for exactly the same thing.

This is all so much, I don't know how to put all this together. See the thing is, I now know too that my mother had tried even with regular means. In my early twenties she talked me into trying some anti-depressants that our family doctor had prescribed. They both suggested that I was depressed for one reason or the other. I didn't feel depressed and I don't feel depressed now. There was paxil, buspar, zoloft... this went on and off for a few years until it just stopped for whatever reason. She now tells me it was because she was trying to cut down on my preoccupation with masturbation. Since we've lived together pretty much always, she knew. She knew from my habits, she knew from my friends, she just knew!

I never thought about it. I just thought I was a normal horny guy who loved to beat off. I now see that it's more than that. I have always loved to edge, which means I'll masturbate, but not to orgasm. I have spent entire weekends in my room or wherever doing that. Even since I first started! Any time I didn't have to work or be in school, that's all I did. And pretty much still do. I didn't want to play afterschool sports, just so I could come home and stay in the bathroom or basement for at least a few hours every day. My grades suffered because I stayed up at night playing with myself instead of doing my homework. I put off going to college because I was afraid I wouldn't be able to get the privacy to masturbate as much as I wanted to. I have stayed home instead of going out to movies or skating rinks or whatever with my friends, just so I could beat off. I have made job choices based around time schedules of when I could be at home and play with myself. I have turned down vacations with my family just so I could stay at home and masturbate!

I've now recently read some information that claims, the height of sexual arrousal before orgasm is equal to and even more potent than the same effects of heroin as far as the chemicals involved in the brain. So I've been addicted to this and not known it. I understand the hypersexuality, but the compulsive masturbation... why don't people talk about that? Why isn't it recognized as a condition of some sort? I don't even want to think about the time I have wasted, or the opportunities I have turned down just so I could masturbate! I've tried to ease up, but never succeeded. Quite frankly because I don't care to. I honestly can't make a cup of coffee without thinking about masturbation or some fantasy regarding it. It's just not possible for me. Is it possible that a person can have a legitimate 'physical' problem with compulsive, uncontrollabe masturbation? Can someone have a legitimate 'physical' problem with even just the desire to masturbate?

I don't even know where to go with this, there's so much more. There are so many thing running through my head! I never thought about this stuff before. I never thought I had a problem before. I never thought there might be a solution to this problem I never thought I had. I never knew so many people around me knew I probably had a problem, did or do have a problem. All the time I wasted. All the time I'm probably going to waste. I mean, there are times I wiggled my way out of physicals because my penis had brown marks and bruises from playing with it so much! Is that normal? Who can I talk with this about? And why am I the last to know?

This whole thing started after I did that deal with my testicles for my friend. When I went limp, I actually started leaving the house for a change. I had no desire (well, I had some desire but couldn't do it really) and I felt different. I actually went to see a movie with an old friend I hadn't seen in a while. I got a haircut and even bought some new clothes. I even went to dinner with my mother which is where this whole thing pretty much began for me. She jokingly (and problably not) asked me if I was going out because my 'peter' fell off? I said no, I cut my balls off! Then she said, Finally! Tell me who did it so I can send them a thank you note! LoL.

So now, I'm relieved and somewhat excited. Actually I know I'm excited, about life. Not in a sexual way. I feel like I want to do things, meet people, go out, have fun, etc. But I'm also scared. I'm scared because when I first heard of this castration thing, it became a brief fantasy. I thought maybe because of my friend, and that distant stuff in my head that my mother was always saying. And now, it's all starting to make some sense. And I'm scared because I know I'm falling back into my old routine. I haven't done it since, but I feel like heating up some water and scalding my nuts just so I can get that experience back even if it's just for a day!

Sorry, this is all so overwhelming! I don't know where I'm starting or ending or beginning. I actually nervouse because I haven't masturbated yet today. I don't know what to do, but I'm starting to shake here and not because of the coffee. All I know is I got to do something, because now that I see all this in this new light, I can't take much more of it. I like what I felt like before, and I want to feel that way again. It's pissing me off that I see this now, and I see this site now, and I see so many other people doing these things, and it was never mentioned to ME as a problem or option or whatever. And above that! Like now, can I go see a doctor about this!? Why don't they know about this kind of condition!! Can I tell them this without thinking I'm crazy!? And what am I going to get? Anti-depressants!? Get real! They need to study this and find a way to do something about it!

Again, sorry. But thanks.

numnuts (imported) wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2004 12:47 pm As I'm new to so much of this, (well probably all of it except for the nut slapping and quest to become sterile just for the heck of it) it seems like every time I read something or run across a piece of information, a light bulb goes off in my head. It seems like a puzzle that's fitting together, and I'm getting answers to questions I don't remember asking.

Honesty, really is as the saying goes, the best policy. Though your experience is different from mine I am not harmed by reading it here on the Archive. Rather I believe we are all enriched by the diversity we make here as we share our different points of view. It is likely that you will find some one who has had similar experiences to your own and can give you the benefit of their experience. As long as you are not harming others there is no need for an apology. My only concern is that you do not harm your self.

Be Well

Jema