http://www.eunuch.org/Alpha/W/ea_191155a_warnin.htm (http://www.eunuch.org/Alpha/W/ea_191155a_warnin.htm)

After much consultation and thought, I have decided to release this story. It contains a warning header, written by me, and is not for those looking for a quick thrill of the classic wank-n-run story.

This isn't one of those.

This is a cold splash of reality, right in the face.

I'd recommend reading it, if you're one of the lurkers who is all worked up by the idea of castration, but isn't sure about the after effects.

I want to thank the Author for sharing these feelings, and for contacting me. We feel that this is something that needs to be shared.

Moral:

Castration is no cure for depression.

Neither is sex re-assignment.

If you want either of these, go through the proper channels and get a psychiatrist's evaluation. If you end up like the subject of this story, you will not be doing yourself any good, those who love you any good and you might just end up broke, sick and alone.

Life is funny that way.

A-1

Moral:

A-1 (imported) wrote: Sat Dec 27, 2003 8:01 pm Castration is no cure for depression.

In some ways, it's more than that though. The depression that hit him after the castration could easily have hit anyone here after their depression.

A Warning to Others is a powerful, and immensely important story for the Archive. While Paolo’s warning that it’s not for the faint of heart is certainly true, it probably should be required reading for ANYONE on the Archive who is seriously considering castration!

While I have no idea who actually wrote it, I have had contact with enough people whose story it could easily be to recognize its truth. Read it. Think about it. Be disturbed by it. The story is not only well written, it’s important!

A second story on the topic, Obsession (http://www.eunuch.org/Alpha/O/ea_205441obsessio.htm) by Slammr, is also a “must read” for Archive members. Slammr is one of our best storytellers, and Obsession is one of his most powerful stories to date.

I want to thank both of these authors for their powerful contributions. I know that I will be recommending both stories to Archive members for a long time to come.

A very intense, hard to read (emotionally) story, but one that needs to be told. Obviously we're here either as eunuchs or as people who are interested in the subject of castration. The idea of being castrated fascinated me, but, upon research into the physical consequences of it, I realized that it wasn't for me. As in the recent story I wrote, "Obsession," I would have been doing it for the wrong reasons, and I rejected the prospect of having it done before realizing that depression was, perhaps, the major consequence. I haven't been depressed since some girl dumped me about a hundred years ago, but I remember how bad that felt. I would have no desire to go through it again.

The stories I write about castration are fantasies-sometimes erotic fantasies, but I would hope that none of them have actually encouraged anyone to be castrated. I am encouraged to see that both sides of the issue are being debated on the message boards. For too long, only the positive aspects of castration were presented. That doesn't meant that it hasn't been best for some people, for one reason or the other; but, for the most of us, it wouldn't be the right choice. Testosterone, for most of us, isn't a poison, it's just another natural hormone that we need.

I sent copies of both of these stories to Richard Wassersug, a professor of human biology in a medical school. He was, himself, castrated as part of his treatment for prostate cancer (see his article Coming Out As A Eunuch (http://prostate-help.org/caeunuc.htm)) and has become active in research on eunuchs and on the consequences of androgen deprivation. He has given his permission for me to post his reaction:

JESUS, Jesus!! Why did you want me to read those stories??!

What part of Slammr's story isn't true? Where is Al now? I read his story after reading Slammr's and ended up crying for several minutes.

The fact is that the biology/psychology in both stories all seems correct to me. Gosh, these are painfully real sounding stories.

For some time I've suspected--but now I think it is time to collect some real data on the topic--that most, if not all, prostate cancer patients on androgen deprivation also end up on anti-depressants. But no one (doctors or patients) openly discusses that. If depression is high among those patients, the doctors probably assume that depression is a given, due to the fact that these patients are at that point where their cancer is incurable. My guess is that both patients and doctors assume that having late stage cancer is a good enough reason to be depressed, and no one thinks any more about it. However there is an alternative hypothesis. Although this may be hard to dissect out, it could just as well be that androgen deprivation is an overriding cause of the patients' depression.

Indirect data from the transsexual community suggests similarly high levels of depression associated with androgen deprivation. I wonder how many (if any) MtFs are not depressed. The high rate of unemployment and suicide in that community surely fits with that profile, and with Al's story.

Women have twice the incidence of depression as men. Eunuchs, who do not supplement with any hormone, should minimally expect a rate of depression that matches that of women.

How do the folks, who speak enthusiastically about the "eunuch calm" distinguish it from simple depression? For my Archives of Sexual Behavior paper with G. Farrell Squire (now in press) I tried to find some medical literature that defined objectively the condition we call "eunuch calm. " I couldn't find any.

I think I told you that one of the disturbing aspects for me of Gelding's claim about all of the men he has castrated is that all these men seem to have disappeared. If they really do/did exist, where are they now? Dead from suicide? Sitting in front of the TV with severe depression, waiting to die? [Has any eunuch on EA claimed to have been castrated by Gelding?]

On a personal note, I think what has helped me stay sane has been the paradoxical acceptance of a 3rd gender status, as opposed to a "damaged male" status, which is the more common mindset/trap many androgen-deprived prostate cancer patients fall into. It has helped me as well to have a developed an academic fascination with the history and culture of eunuchs.

I am still exploring, entertaining myself, in this gender wonderland. But it doesn't sound like such cerebral exploration is working for the characters in these two stories. I see myself as remarkably lucky, that I now cry more (like I did after reading Al's story) and can then spend time fascinated by that response--and enjoy analyzing it. For me, my emotional life is enriched on two levels: the immediate and the post facto analytical. However, if I had been younger and less interested in psychology in the first place, I probably would have had a much harder time objectifying my situation and putting a positive spin on androgen deprivation.

IEunuch sez...

BossTamsin (imported) wrote: Sat Dec 27, 2003 10:06 pm In some ways, it's more than that though. The depression that hit him after the castration could easily have hit anyone here after their depression.

(You mean after their castration, I believe.)

The point that I was trying to make is that depression can cause a fixation on something that you focus on as missing or wrong with your life. It is possible that a functional depression can cause one to fixate on castration as a panacea. This could also be termed a psychosis, but technically it doesn't quite fit the criteria. In other words, it is my claim that the depression has its start before the castration in certain cases and that the castration deepens it and makes it much worse.

A man of 24 years is a little young to be deciding that he wants to live his life as a Eunuch without any reasons related to health, gender re-assignment or other substantial life crisis. The less significant the reason for requesting a castration, the greater the chances that it is a passing phase in his life. You will never convince me that it is normal for a young man to wake up one morning and decide that it is imperative to have a castration to make his life managable. This will not happen to him unless he has significant issues in his life that are causing some sort of crisis. If this is the case then castration may or may not be the answer.

Of course, having balls could also be a "passing phase" in one's life, but after the phase passes the balls do not grow back. If the guy was 50 or so and had family history of tessticle or prostate cancer, then he might be a little more settled on his expectations of life and he would have an easier time finding a doctor to do it for him. However, a man in his 20's is a little young for such elective surgery without significant reasons either psychological or medical to convince a practitoner of the need to have such a procedure done.

This is why it is so difficult to have one done legally.

A-1

Yes this is avery good story and yes it may be true some where.I think every one thats looking for castration should read this .I feel to many dont take things serious enough and castration is a very serious change in your life.And amoung other things i feel it is important to try to get people who want castration to try the chemicles first.So every one who is thinking of castration please do your home work first for this is very serious and not a game

One thing especially to keep in mind though, whes you are doing your homework, is that the full effects are not yet known, and may never be.

There is still a chance that some new disadvantages may be found, or others raised in likelihood. There has been little research done is modern times, so things are still fluid. The advice gines on this board, today, is the best we can give based upon what we currently know.

Those of you that have been here a few years already know the big changes that have occured in terms of the downsides. More may yet occur.

Well, for me this "warning" post look very suspicious - first, it is fictional, second - the castration of this guy was done in the most bizarre manner it could - he used the painful elastrator, he cut off his own balls, young and confused.. His ex-girlfirend turned him down, his familiy was some 80% unsupporting and rejecting, full of prejudice. His macho friends were even worse, they turned him down immidiately, and finally, he had a longterm history of depression and psychosis. Curiously, his androgen supplements doesn`t help, he gets even worse after this..

My castration not only diminished the depression and *especially* my compulsive-obsessive disorder, that developed just after I turned 13, along with puberty - but it also cured my suicidal thoughts and destructive aggression. Finally, I have developed a peculiar sense of general wellbeing that I never experienced before. In my opinion, the only thing that can cause a depression to a eunuch, (this was a hastened conclusion of mine, TheOtherside ; I agree and understand there are a plethora of factors for a depression to occur! ) as it was the case with the fictional guy in the story, is the prejudice from our oh-so-much sex-fixated society - obviously, when all your phobic firends and relatives turn you down, as if you was a scary monster shithead - surely, everyone will develop a depression and suicidal thoughts here. When you feel unwanted and isolated, how else should you react to this? I understand someone`s attempt here to try to inform about all of the sides of castration, but this example is, in my opinion, poor, fictional and not surprising - the castration for this guy was sudden, and full of complications: There was no Dr. Kimmel to do it "safe, legally and almost painless", nor did he had anyone who could support him and give advice - he was isolated, in pain, rejected and disinformed - what else would one expect?

Cheers