I've now been off supplemental T since April, on Lupron since May, with a confirmed undetectable T level at the end of June, and been on an estrogen patch since early July...

I got a bunch of sweating episodes and periods of feeling unusually hot when I started the estrogen, which seem to have stopped (good?) but we were also having serious issues with our home's AC (now replaced by a new heat pump system, which is working great) so it's possible they were related to the heat and not the hormones...

I'm feeling like I'm a bit more mellow, although my GF says she hasn't noticed any personality changes... Mostly I notice it when I'm driving - I'm going a lot slower to save gas, and that is NOT driving me nuts... I feel more accepting of whatever speed I might be forced to use due to traffic.

However I have not noticed any significant physical changes - body hair seems about the same. My mustache seems to take longer to grow back when I trim it, but otherwise the face hair is about the same.

I can't tell if my breast has gotten any bigger, sometimes I think it's a little bigger, other times it looks the same. Nipples / areolas look about the same, and aren't any more sensitive.

Cock and balls seem unchanged - but the penis was already tiny and non-functional, so not much to expect there.

I'm not in a screaming rush, but am wondering if this lack of significant change in my body is normal / about as expected?

I have my next appointment w/ my TG doc on Tuesday next week and am wondering what to say...

Ironically, she has grumbled about my "Crowdsourcing" medical advice off of EA, at the same time she is telling me I'm her first M->E patient... I feel like telling her that we have had to "crowdsource" our own care because the medical profession wouldn't provide it...

WheelyCurious wrote: Mon Aug 29, 2022 8:02 pm Ironically, she has grumbled about my "Crowdsourcing" medical advice off of EA, at the same time she is telling me I'm her first M->E patient... I feel like telling her that we have had to "crowdsource" our own care because the medical profession wouldn't provide it...

The term crowdsourcing was coined in 2006 by Jeff Howe and Mark Robinson, editors at Wired, to describe how businesses were using the Internet to "outsource work to the crowd," which quickly led to the portmanteau "crowdsourcing".

Despite the multiplicity of definitions for crowdsourcing, one constant has been the broadcasting of problems to the public, and an open call for contributions to help solve the problem. Members of the public submit solutions that are then owned by the entity, which originally broadcast the problem. In some cases, the contributor of the solution is compensated monetarily with prizes or with recognition. In other cases, the only rewards may be kudos or intellectual satisfaction. Crowdsourcing may produce solutions from amateurs or volunteers working in their spare time or from experts or small businesses, which were previously unknown to the initiating organization.

* * *

Crowdsourcing

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crowdsourcing

WheelyCurious wrote: Mon Aug 29, 2022 8:02 pm I've now been off supplemental T since April, on Lupron since May, with a confirmed undetectable T level at the end of June, and been on an estrogen patch since early July...

I got a bunch of sweating episodes and periods of feeling unusually hot when I started the estrogen, which seem to have stopped (good?) but we were also having serious issues with our home's AC (now replaced by a new heat pump system, which is working great) so it's possible they were related to the heat and not the hormones...

I'm feeling like I'm a bit more mellow, although my GF says she hasn't noticed any personality changes... Mostly I notice it when I'm driving - I'm going a lot slower to save gas, and that is NOT driving me nuts... I feel more accepting of whatever speed I might be forced to use due to traffic.

However I have not noticed any significant physical changes - body hair seems about the same. My mustache seems to take longer to grow back when I trim it, but otherwise the face hair is about the same.

I can't tell if my breast has gotten any bigger, sometimes I think it's a little bigger, other times it looks the same. Nipples / areolas look about the same, and aren't any more sensitive.

Cock and balls seem unchanged - but the penis was already tiny and non-functional, so not much to expect there.

I'm not in a screaming rush, but am wondering if this lack of significant change in my body is normal / about as expected?

I have my next appointment w/ my TG doc on Tuesday next week and am wondering what to say...

Ironically, she has grumbled about my "Crowdsourcing" medical advice off of EA, at the same time she is telling me I'm her first M->E patient... I feel like telling her that we have had to "crowdsource" our own care because the medical profession wouldn't provide it...

your giving me hope Wheely, and I need it too. I'm about to cancel my appointment with the psych gatekeeper bc there's no SOC8 yet. I have no balls so there must be very little T and I look at myself and sometimes see hints of the changes I want and then see I'm as masculine as ever. but it's really all in what I'd say to the gatekeeper that counts. I think doctors say a lot of inappropriate and stupid things so it is very tempting to snap back at them at times. but I think you gotta make them happy too. I've already got angry at my gatekeeper once and stormed out. I gotta know the rules are on my side next time I see him. hope 8 happens soon. but I think you are in a better situation than I'm in. and I think you can make her happy while expressing your thoughts and frustration. figure out how you can make her smile while becoming more responsive. you've given me great advice, I bet you can walk this tightrope. doctors are our employees after all. I think you'll be able to pull this off. she does need to be aware of her inconsistencies.

Thanks Dee,

It is a bit of an odd situation... The doc I'm currently seeing is actually in the process of moving out of state, and my appointment is on her LAST day in the office. She does have another doc that will be taking over her cases, I don't know if they will be tag-teaming it tomorrow or not (I sort of hope they are...)

However she has expressed a lot of concern about my being on this path because of the extra health risks that I'm already dealing with because of my paralysis, and at the last visit was talking about taking me off the Lupron. She only reluctantly gave me the prescription for the E patches, and I put on my last one this morning w/ no refills on the prescription...

So I need to convince her to at least continue with the E. I don't know if I need to keep going with the Lupron, given that my balls are now seemingly shut down, I've gotten the impression from the "EA crowdsource" that being on E will keep them from starting back up again... (and there may be something to be said for letting the adrenal production of T get me back to something resembling 'female' levels instead of the 'undetectable' level I get with Lupron)

I should also add as minor changes to my first post, I happened to notice this morning that I seem to have lost a lot of my armpit hair... I'm also getting some regrowth on my bald areas - not anything like 'normal' amounts, just scattered hairs...

Unlike you, I don't particularly want to get any feminization, it falls more in the range of an acceptable downside to being a eunuch... So it isn't that I'm unhappy about the seeming lack of changes, just wanting to be sure that it is 'normal' for someone at this stage on the journey.

WheelyCurious

Well had my appointment with the doc today, not sure what is going to come of it... We may be changing who will be taking over my care in an effort to simplify the care team and who is doing what... Currently she said that she was just doing the gender hormones, and leaving my bone health to my previous endocrinologist as she said she didn't have the background for that... However the previous endocrinologist seems to be wanting to take a back seat role and let her run things.... What she suggested was possibly switching me to one of their TG center endocrinologists who can handle BOTH the bone health and gender hormone care rather than trying to coordinate two different doctors. This sounded good to me.

She isn't sure what she will want to do about the meds - I had a bunch of blood tests drawn today and she is wanting to look at the results before deciding. I was pretty firm about wanting to stay on the E, and said I was OK w/ stopping the Lupron after my next dose (which I will get from the pharmacy tomorrow, even though I'm not due to take it until 9/21 - the CVS specialty pharmacy seems to want to send me the next dose earlier every month...)

She seemed to think the current 0.1mg / day E patches I'm on now may be a bit to low, so may want to increase them, but will see tomorrow...

I've been getting results of the tests back over the last few hours... (Patient Gateways are nice that way) So far, I've gotten:

ESTRADIOL 66 pg/mL Normal = 26 to 61 pg/mL26 - 61 pg/mL (not sure if that is male or female range?)

from the LFT's (hepatic panel) everything was well within the normal range, EXCEPT -

ALT 75 U/L Normal = 10 to 55 U/L10 - 55 U/L

I looked it up - it is the Alanine Aminotransferase (ALT) Test, and the description the gateway linked to https://www.healthwise.net/partnersmych ... 45#hw20648 doesn't say anything directly about hormones being a cause, but I don't really check any of the other boxes, and it's a big increase over the past tests that have all been in the normal range. Does this seem like an alarming result?

They also did a CBC (Complete Blood Count) and again everything was well within the normal range except the White Blood Cell count, which tends to run high on me, probably because of the chronic borderline UTI I get from having to cath... However I'm not usually above the normal range like I am this time around...

WBC 12.21 K/uL Normal = 4.5 to 11.0 K/uL4.5 - 11.0 K/uL

Will update as I get more results...

WheelyCurious

Well more results and doctor response...

As expected my T level was basically non-detectable... TESTOSTERONE <12 ng/dL Normal = 249 to 836 ng/dL

She is bumping the E patch from 0.1mg/day to 0.2mg/day, and says I can stop the Lupron... Not sure if I should take the last dose that I'll be picking up from the pharmacy in a day or so...

She didn't say anything about the ALT being high, but I was just on the phone scheduling a follow up (supposed to happen in 3mo, but 1st avail isn't until late Jan ) and also spoke w/ one of the nurses who seemed to think it was not a problem. She did suggest that I should possibly talk to my PCP about the high WBC...

So the journey continues....

WheelyCurious

I'm waiting for reply on the

The doctor consensus on the blood tests are that they aren't big issues at the moment.

I should be extra cautious to keep an eye out for any signs of infection that might account for the WBC issue, but otherwise wait and see if it clears up on its own.

The pharmacy said that I didn't have to pick up the Lupron dose, so I'm off that, although the shot I'm on right now will last until nearly the end of Sept... Presumably being on E will keep the balls shut off, but my T will come back up a little as the adrenals kick back in.

Minor problem w/ the E - when I picked up the prescription, it was still for the 0.1mg/day patches, not the 0.2mg that the doctor said she was bumping me up to... :-\ I contacted the doc and asked and they said it was an 'oops' on their end and they'd be sending a revised scrip to the pharmacy... In the meantime I am just using two patches at a time until I get through this batch.

Just put the first double patch on last night, will see how things change over the next few days.

WheelyCurious

hi wheely, sorry for the delayed response. it has not been the best week. not suffering particularly but been distracted for reasons related to my transitioning situation. for me i have a way of not keeping in my mind what certain meds do. so i don’t know if i understand how those that you are on have an effect on you. i’m not on anything used for gender sexual purposes and never have been. now with orchi, i don’t know if i’ve undergone any changes at all. i really can’t tell. there are some things that have changed but i don’t know why and i don’t think they show.

as for a doctor showing concern for the road you are on, i think doctors do have concern but there seems to be valid points on either side of an issue. my therapist suggests that taking estrogen is not a good idea because it is first, not natural to do that and it causes physiological changes that to her are problematic and it does pose certain health risks. on the other hand not taking T or E also poses risks. and for me, T being absolutely out of the question because it is poison to me, it would have to be E which i am struggling over still. should i or should i not?? but at the same time she has often spoken about how great taking anti depressants can be because they promote new whatchamacallits in the brain (sorry the correct terminology escapes me at the moment). so i said to her wtf, what’s the difference? not natural, causes changes and has two sides to consider just as much. same with vitamins for that matter. so my point is that a doctor’s concern might mean that she is considering only one thing when she has to consider two. or worse, that she is letting personal feelings rule her decision making.

i see that you have also posted a few more posts since the other day that i have not yet looked at. i hope everything is going ok for you. i’ll be checking those posts out shortly

dee2essohkay (imported) wrote: Sun Sep 04, 2022 1:56 pm hi wheely, sorry for the delayed response. it has not been the best week. not suffering particularly but been distracted for reasons related to my transitioning situation. for me i have a way of not keeping in my mind what certain meds do. so i don’t know if i understand how those that you are on have an effect on you. i’m not on anything used for gender sexual purposes and never have been. now with orchi, i don’t know if i’ve undergone any changes at all. i really can’t tell. there are some things that have changed but i don

’t know why and i don’t think they show.

Basically the Lupron is a chemical castration drug, that shuts down testosterone production. If someone has been castrated surgically it won't do anything and isn't needed... The estrogen is female hormone replacement... While I haven't had an orchie, I've been a bit surprised at how little physical change there has been, as a lot of the descriptions had led me to expect more. But time will tell and may bring more.

dee2essohkay (imported) wrote: Sun Sep 04, 2022 1:56 pm as for a doctor showing concern for the road you are on, i think doctors do have concern but there seems to be valid points on either side of an issue. my therapist suggests that taking estrogen is not a good idea because it is first, not natural to do that and it causes physiological changes that to her are problematic and it does pose certain health risks. on the other hand not taking T or E also poses risks. and for me, T being absolutely out of the question because it is poison to me, it would have to be E which i am struggling over still. should i or should i not?? but at the same time she has often spoken about how great taking anti depressants can be because they promote new whatchamacallits in the brain (sorry the correct terminology escapes me at the moment). so i said to her wtf, what’s the difference? not natural, causes changes and has two sides to consider just as much. same with vitamins for that matter. so my point is that a doctor’s concern might mean that she is considering only one thing when she has to consider two. or worse, that she is letting personal feelings rule her decision making.

Therapists are used to working with psychiatrists who specialize in pushing anti-depressants and other similar meds, so they tend to be big fans of them. In addition phsych meds are the current big fashion where they seem to want to push them for everything.... I would suggest that you should be on some sort of hormone for bone health if nothing else. The appropriate doctor for that is an endocrinologist, NOT a therapist... Given your expressed desire for moving in a more feminine direction, it would seem to me that estrogen would be the best choice for that and bone health. Anti-depressants might help your mental state but won't do anything for your bones or desire to be more feminine.

dee2essohkay (imported) wrote: Sun Sep 04, 2022 1:56 pm i see that you have also posted a few more posts since the other day that i have not yet looked at. i hope everything is going ok for you. i’ll be checking those posts out shortly

…

Thanks...

WheelyCurious

Most of the information I have read about E over the years has indicated that most of the physical changes start in months 3-6. So if you haven't seen changes yet, they're likely to become noticeable to you soon. Best of luck to you; I hope you get what you want and need out of this.