I will soon have the opportunity to have a PO Box I can visit daily without others knowing.

Is there a program for people who want to land somewhere in between male and female?

My insurance has not covered my TRT for two straight months and it looks like I can get a full MTF program together for not much more.

I'd like to shift towards neutral hormonally, though I must present as male for the moment.

A quick google search will reveal there are growing options for those of us “in between”. No longer are we being forced into some WRATH defined gender choice. I don’t want to be a woman but nor do I wish to continue having a penis atop where my balls and scrotum once resided. Several clinics are now recognizing some just wish to be nullified and go on about their lives. Hopefully soon it will get even easier and less expensive.

seanthomas (imported) wrote: Thu Apr 07, 2022 9:19 pm A quick google search will reveal there are growing options for those of us “in between”. No longer are we being forced into some WRATH defined gender choice. I don’t want to be a woman but nor do I wish to continue having a penis atop where my balls and scrotum once resided. Several clinics are now recognizing some just wish to be nullified and go on about their lives. Hopefully soon it will get even easier and less expensive.

So well put! After all, so called gender is a mental thing while a sex is a physical thing. I'm really tired of society trying to make a mental thing into a physical thing. I have no WRATH defined gender. I have a physical sex as defined by biology. And simple biology defines my body as male. Yes, it may have been modified but it is still male. I had as many male parts removed as I could afford at the time. But no amount of parts removed will make me a female. No matter how much society considers me as such it doesn't make it so. As I coexist in society they need to feel comfortable with themselves. If calling me female makes society feel good about themselves so be it. It still does not make it so. It goes to the old concept, "if you repeat a lie often enough folks will consider it to be the truth" But it is still not the truth in reality.

spookibus (imported) wrote: Thu Apr 07, 2022 6:18 pm I will soon have the opportunity to have a PO Box I can visit daily without others knowing.

Is there a program for people who want to land somewhere in between male and female?

My insurance has not covered my TRT for two straight months and it looks like I can get a full MTF program together for not much more.

I'd like to shift towards neutral hormonally, though I must present as male for the moment.

You're asking great questions, and I think most of your concern is about to be answered by the SOC8 when it is published.

I would say this middle ground you are describing is starting to be defined, but we'll all have to wait until the SOC8 comes out. It was supposed to be out in 2020, but we all know what happened that year. So it's been pushed back, but as I understand it it will be this year it gets published. Once that happens, it will take a while for medical practitioners to catch up and understand it's in there.

Once published, if anyone gets pushback from a practitioner, I'd recommend politely pointing them to it in the new SOC8, then make sure you have a copy of it yourself at the next appointment. Don't be judgmental of the practitioner (as you wouldn't want them to be of you), it often takes a bit for them to get on board with these changes. Sometimes we have to educate them, not the other way around.

I am purely speculating here, but if you go to the WPATH website, it opens with a registration page for a big conference they are holding in September, billed as the "27th Science Symposium"... It would seem like a logical time to officially publish the long awaited SOC8 as a big part of the event...

In the meantime, there have been a lot of versions released for comment to the point where any good clinic SHOULD already know about it, has probably gotten and read a copy, etc. I have read a copy and it has a lot of good stuff in it for people like us that want to alter the equipment, but not do a swap... There is a chapter specifically for people wanting to transition to eunuch. There is a lowering of some of the requirements in terms of psych work, such as only needing one letter and so on. They do want a minimum 6 months of chemical castration before doing surgery, which I think is a good idea anyway.

I can say from my personal experience that I've had ZERO problems with the TG center that I'm dealing with... I called on the phone, got a virtual visit with the doctor who basically went over my reasons, and goals, did the informed consent routine of making sure I knew about the consequences and so on... She was OK with it, and took a couple weeks to talk with my existing care team and come up with a plan, which we discussed at a second appointment. I'm now in a 6 week wait without using the supplemental T that I'd been on. In a few more weeks I'll be going in for blood work to get a handle on what it will take for my chemical castration and starting that.

I would say that there is no real downside to at least calling your nearest centers and asking them if they will help you reach your goals... Worst case is they say no.

WheelyCurious

Well put. To add to this, although I suppose I’m part of the LGBT community I think a great disservice is being done by folks being “in your face” about gender choices. The demand of immediate social recognition, pronoun use, the “woke” social justice warriors and even MTF athletes are not aiding the cause. You don’t change the majority’s minds with such nonsense. Rome was not built in a day.

Begoneboy (imported) wrote: Fri Apr 08, 2022 9:42 am So well put! After all, so called gender is a mental thing while a sex is a physical thing. I'm really tired of society trying to make a mental thing into a physical thing. I have no WRATH defined gender. I have a physical sex as defined by biology. And simple biology defines my body as male. Yes, it may have been modified but it is still male. I had as many male parts removed as I could afford at the time. But no amount of parts removed will make me a female. No matter how much society considers me as such it doesn't make it so. As I coexist in society they need to feel comfortable with themselves. If calling me female makes society feel good about themselves so be it. It still does not make it so. It goes to the old concept, "if you repeat a lie often enough folks will consider it to be the truth" But it is still not the truth in reality.

seanthomas (imported) wrote: Fri Apr 08, 2022 6:27 pm Well put. To add to this, although I suppose I’m part of the LGBT community I think a great disservice is being done by folks being “in your face” about gender choices. The demand of immediate social recognition, pronoun use, the “woke” social justice warriors and even MTF athletes are not aiding the cause. You don’t change the majority’s minds with such nonsense. Rome was not built in a day.

I would disagree. The more visible these people are, the more people will see they are not a threat to anything. They don't want to fundamentally change society, they simply want the freedom the rest of society demands they give them.

Begoneboy (imported) wrote: Fri Apr 08, 2022 9:42 am So well put! After all, so called gender is a mental thing while a sex is a physical thing. I'm really tired of society trying to make a mental thing into a physical thing. I have no WRATH defined gender. I have a physical sex as defined by biology. And simple biology defines my body as male. Yes, it may have been modified but it is still male. I had as many male parts removed as I could afford at the time. But no amount of parts removed will make me a female. No matter how much society considers me as such it doesn't make it so. As I coexist in society they need to feel comfortable with themselves. If calling me female makes society feel good about themselves so be it. It still does not make it so. It goes to the old concept, "if you repeat a lie often enough folks will consider it to be the truth" But it is still not the truth in reality.

Very much agreed.

Biologically, if one still agree that biology is science; sex is determined by chromosome composition. XY is male and XX is female, no surgery can change chromosome composition. There are people with other chromosome compositions due to errors occurred in recombination's. These people are not male or female because they will not make sperms or eggs. No surgery can change that either.

seanthomas (imported) wrote: Fri Apr 08, 2022 6:27 pm Well put. To add to this, although I suppose I’m part of the LGBT community I think a great disservice is being done by folks being “in your face” about gender choices. The demand of immediate social recognition, pronoun use, the “woke” social justice warriors and even MTF athletes are not aiding the cause. You don’t change the majority’s minds with such nonsense. Rome was not built in a day.

While I myself tend to be quiet and subtle about my sexuality, and I don't "scream" "in your face" about my gender choice of being a eunuch, or sexuality, I do have to huge respect for others who are vocal and demanding others respect their pronouns, the "woke" social justice warriors. Some of the straight, binary-thinking majority won't wake up to the differences. Others take a softer persuasion. Both efforts are equally important.

Similar to any movement, such as BLM to AIDS epidemic, if there is not enough noise ... the saying goes, "the squeaky wheel gets the oil." Many people never knew all the historical events that preceded us, and only through activism did we realize what we assumed as one happy family, actually had a lot of unhealed scars.

Yes, Rome was not built in one day. But no Rome would ever be built had there not been someone who carry the heavy rocks and stack them up, one at a time.

spookibus (imported) wrote: Thu Apr 07, 2022 6:18 pm I will soon have the opportunity to have a PO Box I can visit daily without others knowing.

Is there a program for people who want to land somewhere in between male and female?

My insurance has not covered my TRT for two straight months and it looks like I can get a full MTF program together for not much more.

I'd like to shift towards neutral hormonally, though I must present as male for the moment.

I am not sure where you are located. Living in San Francisco, I am blessed by a very supportive community, including the medical community. And even with SOC8, I would be extremely careful in choosing a supportive health care provider if I were living in less accepting communities. I certainly won't want to be under the knife by a doctor whose faith and upbringing is against our very existence.