A few years ago I was chatting with a member here who was using bio-identical vitamins and foods to increase breast growth. He told me there was also a great deal of estrogen in things we eat and eat from, particularly plastics.

I had commented on a recent post discussing the seemingly explosive growth in men who identify as non-binary and though increased levels of estrogen in everyday items could possibly be a contribution. Then today I read an article about tiny bits of plastic being found in men's bloodstream and wondered....... Is there really something to my theory?

Now I know that the endocrine system is a delicate thing and keeping hormone ratios in balance is important. Men need a complimentary about of estrogen working in concert with testosterone to maintain a healthy sex life. Women in turn, produce a small amount of testosterone to balance their hormones. Throw this balance off and the body reacts.

Now we know what happens when a man has his balls removed and 95% of his testosterone. But what about an intact male whose body is subjected to an unnatural amount of bio-identical female hormones? Note that we use a helluva lot more plastic around our food today than we did even thirty years ago.

Anyway, for those who may be interested in this subject, here are some links:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3222987/

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech ... -time.html

seanthomas (imported) wrote: Fri Mar 25, 2022 10:54 am But what about an intact male whose body is subjected to an unnatural amount of bio-identical female hormones?

Except stuff in plastic isn't bio-identical. They are called 'xenoestrogens' for a reason.

fhunter wrote: Fri Mar 25, 2022 12:46 pm Except stuff in plastic isn't bio-identical. They are called 'xenoestrogens' for a reason.

The cited article, as well as many others, appears to indicate estrogenic actions in many types of plastics. The subject is simply of mild interest to me and I really don’t have a “dog in the fight”. I mention it as it raises questions about a form, mild though it may be, of chemical castration.

I think the answers you seek are available by taking a look at research related to hormones for MtF transgender individuals. Their journey's using female hormones may be similar to what you're wanting to know about. However, as I do not myself have their experience, I would let them speak about if this is the case. I would think, logically, it could be similar.

Though if this was significant in the environment, I think you'd see a lot more skinny men with breasts walking around.

I wrote a piece addressing this point two days ago. Or rather my dismissal of it.

Several studies have been conducted in the UK over the past two decades and whilst there is clear evidence of phyto-estrogens in the water supply they are not of sufficient quantities to have any effect. Other countries, I feel sure, will bear similar conclusions.

You'll actually find one of the greatest concentrations in beer. Hence my tipple of choice.

Losethem (imported) wrote: Sat Mar 26, 2022 5:54 am I think the answers you seek are available by taking a look at research related to hormones for MtF transgender individuals. Their journey's using female hormones may be similar to what you're wanting to know about. However, as I do not myself have their experience, I would let them speak about if this is the case. I would think, logically, it could be similar.

Though if this was significant in the environment, I think you'd see a lot more skinny men with breasts walking around.

Well we definitely see the prolific use of products that were unknown to our parents and plastic is perhaps the most pervasive. Bottled water? Who would have thunk it in 1950? So perhaps it’s good that research is ongoing as there may be far more dangers in our modern existence that hormone influencing products. All I know is twenty five years ago girls didn’t reach puberty at age ten and it was not until five years ago that I met a transgender person.

Like I said I don’t have a personal issue and just find the subject interesting. It doesn’t affect me as I’ve been on estradiol in lieu of TRT for over a year.

AcordingIP (imported) wrote: Sat Mar 26, 2022 11:28 am I wrote a piece addressing this point two days ago. Or rather my dismissal of it.

Several studies have been conducted in the UK over the past two decades and whilst there is clear evidence of phyto-estrogens in the water supply they are not of sufficient quantities to have any effect. Other countries, I feel sure, will bear similar conclusions.

You'll actually find one of the greatest concentrations in beer. Hence my tipple of choice.

Before I got hurt, (can't handle full carboys now) I did a lot of home brewing, some beer, mostly mead. They used to make a lot of meads with herbs of different sorts as a way of preserving the herbs so that one could get use of them when they weren't in season. These meads were known as 'Metheglyns" which is one of the root words for 'medicine' and really were intended to be "Good for what ails you". I had a couple of books on the topic and they went into some history.... My primary reference for this was "Sacred and Herbal Healing Beers: The Secrets of Ancient Fermentation " by Stephen Harrod Buhner, ISBN-13 ‏ : ‎ 978-0937381663

Prior to the Protestant Reformation, Medieval brews did not use hops - they used various herbal blends known as 'gruits' the exact formulas of most have been lost, but seem have been mild aphrodisiacs and stimulants for the most part. The blends were a secret recipe monopoly of the many monasteries, and sale of them was a significant source of the monasteries support.

The Protestant Reformation introduced and then mandated the use of hops (starting with the German "Beer Purity" laws) which are both anaphrodisiac and sedative in effect. Hops are highly estrogenic, and there are a great many references to an occupational illness of beer brewers and pub keepers known as "Brewer's Droop"

So According is definitely correct about beer being a source of estrogen. Ever since I learned about this I've always been amused by all the beer commercials you see that feature 'Manly men doing Manly things' - if only they knew....

(I also would make the casual observation that most guys I see w/ substantial beer guts also usually have a pretty good set of "moobs")

WheelyCurious

It all starts to make since now why I'm bi-gender, all the plastic I've had induced in to me over my lifetime and my love of drinking craft beer!

Well heck, it's in red wine, too:

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/1 ... 062019.htm

Get it before it's gone.

Before I got hurt, ................................................

WheelyCurious wrote: Sat Mar 26, 2022 4:13 pm (I also would make the casual observation that most guys I see w/ substantial beer guts also usually have a pretty good set of "moobs")

WheelyCurious

those with substantial beer guts and pretty good set of moobs have nothing to do with estrogen. It's call FAT and has more to do with no personal self worth and complete lack of caring for oneself. Lots of guys have substantial beer guts who have never drank beer. It's a big world we live in