It seems that we as a community remain stuck in this nebulous existence, even within the transgender community. MTF and FTM are clearly defined and understood, inside and outside the LGBTQ realms. However, eunuchs continue to be very much misunderstood and not acknowledged as a separate gender. Short of being out, loud and proud which many are reluctant to do, how do we promote and raise awareness of the eunuch as an accepted and embraced identity?

Since most people cannot understand men voluntarily giving up their healthy sex organs. The men who had to lose theirs for medical reasons need to be the most openly modified males. But, of course, that is different from the MTE that you are talking about. The MTE alone make up too small of a group to gain much attention from the public, out of all of the other groups trying to gain awareness and acceptance.

It is more the partners of MTE who are important to gain acceptance from than the public.

Based on the comments about what to call genitally modified men in a different thread, most of them prefer to be confidential about their modifications and not known publically as modified.

The work for recognition is ongoing. It's been presented in forums where gender non-conformity is discussed among members of the medical community and researchers. It is being considered for inclusion in the next update to the DSM, which will help our community immensely should it be adopted.

I think much of the problem is the lack of visibility, unlike people who undergo a complete gender transition, we are not that visible. However, getting ourselves out in front of the broader non-conforming community is important. Those who need to know are starting to be exposed to us. That's a good thing.

evolve (imported) wrote: Sun Jun 14, 2020 11:31 am It seems that we as a community remain stuck in this nebulous existence, even within the transgender community. MTF and FTM are clearly defined and understood, inside and outside the LGBTQ realms. However, eunuchs continue to be very much misunderstood and not acknowledged as a separate gender. Short of being out, loud and proud which many are reluctant to do, how do we promote and raise awareness of the eunuch as an accepted and embraced identity?

The dinner table.

Harvey Milk was on the bleeding edge of gay rights. After living in New York, he moved to San Francisco and opened up a camera store. By the time we moved into our first apartment in the city we were only half a block from the storefront. It was a coffee shop by that point but, you could feel him there when you walked by.

As an openly gay man, Harvey Milk ran for City Commissioner in San Francisco (San Francisco County and City have the exact same geographic boundaries and so they don't have City Councilmen nor County Commissioners - They Combine them into City Commissioner).

During his campaign Commissioner Milk (sorry didn't mean to spoil that he won), emphasized over and over that acceptance of gay people would never be won with the passage of city, county, state, nor federal laws. That protests, marches, and parades were all well and good.

However, Commissioner Milk said the place gay rights would be won was at the family table, birthday parties, Christmas gatherings, and weddings. He pointed out that it didn't do any good to grab a sign and march for gay rights on Saturday and then not bring your boyfriend home for Sunday dinner at your parents' house.

It's easy to hate a group of people you don't know. But, when it's your child or grandchild, it softens the heart.

I never (let me repeat that NEVER) would have thought that same-sex marriage would be on equal footing with non-same-sex marriage in my lifetime. But as Commissioner Milk pointed out, it was won at the dinner table. Yeah, it took dozens of losses on constitutional amendments, the passage of Don't Ask Don't Tell, DOMA. All of those felt like a stab to my heart. And still, the dinner table is where we won. DOMA was tossed out on 14th Amendment grounds, Don't Ask was reversed by executive order. With DOMA gone, the re:Marriages case also won on 14th Amendment grounds.

Harvey Milk never saw same-sex and non-same-sex marriage become equal. He was murdered in his office at San Francisco City Hall on Nov 27, 1978 along with Mayor George Moscone. His murderer didn't like that gay people were moving into the neighborhood where he'd lived his whole life. Perhaps, if someone in the murderer's life had been open at the dinner table, maybe ... who knows?

So, I stick with "at the dinner table". One person at a time seems slower than a massive million person march on Washington but, in the long run, it works.

We as a species seem to have way too many issues with "the identity thing". As a species we need to get away from that one concept which continues to divide everybody. I mean look at all of the social and cultural division in this country caused by identity politics and policies. Black community, gay community, white supremacist community, feminist community, political community, religious community etc.

It all does nothing but divide the nation. And a divided nation will surely fall. I don't advertise that I am this or that and run out shouting it on any ole soap box. I am just me and intend to stay that way. We as a species and a nation need to return to the fact that we are all the same and none of us have any right to any form of special treatment from anybody else.

It's not that I identify as a eunuch/nullo or anything else. It happens to be a fact but that doesn't warrant being considered different nor treated different from any other member of the species. We don't need to have special identities. We just need to be ourselves and respect every other person as a member of the human species without being different from any other member of the human species.

If everybody did that we would have far fewer problems in society.

Begoneboy (imported) wrote: Mon Jun 15, 2020 5:47 am We as a species seem to have way too many issues with "the identity thing". As a species we need to get away from that one concept which continues to divide everybody. I mean look at all of the social and cultural division in this country caused by identity politics and policies. Black community, gay community, white supremacist community, feminist community, political community, religious community etc.

It all does nothing but divide the nation. And a divided nation will surely fall. I don't advertise that I am this or that and run out shouting it on any ole soap box. I am just me and intend to stay that way. We as a species and a nation need to return to the fact that we are all the same and none of us have any right to any form of special treatment from anybody else.

It's not that I identify as a eunuch/nullo or anything else. It happens to be a fact but that doesn't warrant being considered different nor treated different from any other member of the species. We don't need to have special identities. We just need to be ourselves and respect every other person as a member of the human species without being different from any other member of the human species.

If everybody did that we would have far fewer problems in society.

Yes. While we have certain qualities. We are "people". And those qualities are but icing on the cake of humanity.

evolve (imported) wrote: Sun Jun 14, 2020 11:31 am It seems that we as a community remain stuck in this nebulous existence, even within the transgender community. MTF and FTM are clearly defined and understood, inside and outside the LGBTQ realms. However, eunuchs continue to be very much misunderstood and not acknowledged as a separate gender. Short of being out, loud and proud which many are reluctant to do, how do we promote and raise awareness of the eunuch as an accepted and embraced identity?

Us eunuchs are not there yet but we're going in the right direction. We definitely need to speak LOUDER and be PROUDER. Just do what all the other transgenders have been doing for quite some time and it will eventually pay off. Yeah being accepted and embraced. I like those words alot. That is our ultimate goal.

cutnbulls2ox (imported) wrote: Sun Jun 14, 2020 12:52 pm Since most people cannot understand men voluntarily giving up their healthy sex organs. The men who had to lose theirs for medical reasons need to be the most openly modified males. But, of course, that is different from the MTE that you are talking about. The MTE alone make up too small of a group to gain much attention from the public, out of all of the other groups trying to gain awareness and acceptance.

It is more the partners of MTE who are important to gain acceptance from than the public.

Based on the comments about what to call genitally modified men in a different thread, most of them prefer to be confidential about their modifications and not known publically as modified.

Get every man castrated who has the desire to do so. Believe me there are plenty of men out there who want it. That will increase our numbers greatly and numbers increase strength. Orchiectomies should be promoted and I think in time they will be.

evolve (imported) wrote: Sun Jun 14, 2020 11:31 am It seems that we as a community remain stuck in this nebulous existence, even within the transgender community. MTF and FTM are clearly defined and understood, inside and outside the LGBTQ realms. However, eunuchs continue to be very much misunderstood and not acknowledged as a separate gender. Short of being out, loud and proud which many are reluctant to do, how do we promote and raise awareness of the eunuch as an accepted and embraced identity?

I think it's hard too because it's such a genital-based thing. Transgender identities focus on what's in your pants not being part of your visible GID. I tell everyone I can about my penectomy, but it seems impossible to tell my coworkers exactly why I was out of the office for surgery. I've made it clear they can ask all they want but no one has shown even a passing interest. I made it pretty clear on my twitter account that people can ask too.

It's frustrating because it's such a big deal to me but I feel like people don't really care to hear it unless they're a close friend. Since it's info about my genitals, I don't feel comfortable with giving people info they might not want or need. In general people know I had bottom surgery and that I'm agender and they support my choices, but for all they know I had a vaginoplasty.

I feel like we have to overcome the actual stigma of talking about these things for eunuchs to be taken seriously. In places like this forum it's easy, but framing it in the broader world is tough. (edited for typo)

Begoneboy (imported) wrote: Mon Jun 15, 2020 5:47 am We as a species seem to have way too many issues with "the identity thing". As a species we need to get away from that one concept which continues to divide everybody. I mean look at all of the social and cultural division in this country caused by identity politics and policies. Black community, gay community, white supremacist community, feminist community, political community, religious community etc.

It all does nothing but divide the nation. And a divided nation will surely fall. I don't advertise that I am this or that and run out shouting it on any ole soap box. I am just me and intend to stay that way. We as a species and a nation need to return to the fact that we are all the same and none of us have any right to any form of special treatment from anybody else.

It's not that I identify as a eunuch/nullo or anything else. It happens to be a fact but that doesn't warrant being considered different nor treated different from any other member of the species. We don't need to have special identities. We just need to be ourselves and respect every other person as a member of the human species without being different from any other member of the human species.

If everybody did that we would have far fewer problems in society.

Denying the tribal nature of humanity is counterproductive, especially when we are standing among our own little tribe here in our corner of the internet. Special identities matter. Without them, injustice becomes invisible.