I keep thinking of a story where a doctor who is both a surgeon and a psychiatrist.

He makes it clear to his clients that the service he offers is "genital" nullification. He explains that "gender" nullification has nothing to do with surgery. That it's possible to nullify genitals and leave gender the same. Also, it's also possible to nullify both gender and genitals.

Somewhere it all gets confusing.

So, the question is this, is there a difference between genital nullification and gender nullification?

TopManFL (imported) wrote: Tue Oct 22, 2019 5:26 pm So, the question is this, is there a difference between genital nullification and gender nullification?

This totally makes sense to me because I have struggled some with this as well. I have surgery scheduled next month and will be totally smooth with a reroute. I'm nervous but feel totally ready. I don't always like labels but I have always described it and my psych letters say "genital nullification" because it is removing body parts. I will stay presenting as male which I believe will be my gender even though I don't have any parts either way. I believe it is also possible to have the gender identity of eunuch but I don't think that is widely accepted yet, either socially or legally. I identify my sexuality as an asexual gay male and will continue to do so. I prefer to be with men but don't have any interest in sexual interaction or intercourse, so that's the asexual part. I consider my nullification surgery to be a commitment to my asexuality.

I believe that a "gender nullification" would be more in line with a person who does not identify as male or female and is non-binary, non-conforming, androgynous, or gender fluid. While I don't claim to understand all of those, the nullification would be more of an identity and as such connected more to the brain. That's the best way I can understand it.

We shall see what others bring to the table.

keyman419 (imported) wrote: Tue Oct 22, 2019 5:51 pm I believe that a "gender nullification" would be more in line with a person who does not identify as male or female and is non-binary, non-conforming, androgynous, or gender fluid. While I don't claim to understand all of those, the nullification would be more of an identity and as such connected more to the brain. That's the best way I can understand it.

Hey @keyman419 ,

You said,"...connected more to the brain."

So, if someone wanted to do away with their gender, could they do so either with and without surgery?

Also, you mention that your sexuality is "an asexual gay male". Believe it or not, that is both the first time I've heard that term and I understood what you meant.

Thanks for the reply.

I would say I fit into genital nullification but NOT gender nullification. I'm a guy, will always be a guy. I just had my genitals amputated to be more comfortable in this bag of meat and bones I call a body.

TopManFL (imported) wrote: Tue Oct 22, 2019 7:18 pm You said,"...connected more to the brain."

So, if someone wanted to do away with their gender, could they do so either with and without surgery?

I suppose it's possible. It is well researched that the human brain develops differently between male and female. Most transgender individuals show brain development towards their opposite birth gender so I would say it's possible for there to be middle ground or extremes on each side. I think what I meant was that the brain development has a roll in gender and therefore there would be a process involving changing the brain wiring that deals with gender. Perhaps gender nullification is most closely related to this middle ground. I also think that genital nullification would be a step towards gender nullification if the individual feels that way. It's confusing to me as well.

I remember a story involving this to a degree, and it's been part of my fantasy-base for a while.

The story was about a boy's nullification, wherein they 'overloaded', I guess, the nerves feeding the entire genital region. Like, they just sent a jolt back up to the brain from the end of the nerves.

The (very fictional, remember) idea was that after recovery from the surgery, the boy would no longer remember his former genitals in any personal way; he would remember the fact of their existence, but any former love for it, thoughts about how it felt to use it, or desire for its return was vacant, along with any real connection to 'boyishness'. The result was supposed to be a truly genital-less and genderless person.

In reality, though, I think the best one could hope for is being gender neutral. Removing gender completely sounds like a stretch, but just to me. And I'd love to live gender free... there are feminine clothes and attitudes I'd love to wear/display, but can't in my industry. That said, even in a utopian gender-free society, I'd naturally be fairly masculine even though I enjoy girlish behaviors.

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TopManFL (imported) wrote: Tue Oct 22, 2019 5:26 pm Somewhere it all gets confusing.

So, the question is this, is there a difference between genital nullification and gender nullification?

hat was/is truly one of the great questions. And I rather suspect the answer varies a lot. We can't seem to ask the healthcare industry because they are even more confused than those of us battling the issue. In my case I was never gender confused since I didn't really desire to be part of either. All I ever wanted was to be free of the physical gender genitals. In the end I was able to accomplish that goal.

Now afterwards I felt complete and my mind was ever so content. Until that is, I began replacing hormones. So now we get to the crutch of the matter. Adding hormones to the body was a result of maintaining some important health concepts to my way of thinking. As I've described previously in the archive the lack of hormone components in my body presented the loss of some of the attributes of a healthy body. That strength, stamina and endurance we all associate with the male physique. Perhaps my error (and I will say it was an error) was the type of hormones I added to my body. And the subsequent abuse of those hormones. As my body began to have not noticeable changes (at least to me) it's very possible that those hormones duplicated what keyman419 alluded to in regard to a connection between genital to the brain. It's difficult to say as a layman or non medical type. While my body went through changes I still enjoyed the male associated activities. After all, I was at the time enjoying activities rarely associated with what used to be called the weaker sex. And still thrive in those sort of activities. I still prefer hanging with the guys verses the gals. But or as well, the strong male physique can be a true turn on since I have now experienced how a strong, self assured guy can give sexual pleasure to me. Not sure that makes me what is said to be gay. After all, I have no longer the male sexual genitals attached to my body. But I also lack the female genitals. Regardless of how society sees me I am still the same person who my parents brought onto this third rock from the sun we all share.

So in the beginning a surgeon can only nullify the genitals. I believe to nullify the gender is a far more complicated process as it involves both the individual and society to do so and society does not seem to be able to see people as anything other than one of the two sexes.