The thread Fighting, brawling, temper, and testosterone (http://forums.eunuch.org/showthread.php ... stosterone) provides some interesting and useful personal experiences with aggression and asks some important questions along the way. From the standpoint of social psychology or of physiology, we can consider (at least) two distinct types of aggression: reactive and reflective. Reactive aggression is largely mediated by testosterone and reflective aggression is not. Both males and females have some testosterone in their systems produced by the adrenal glands, so both have some level of reactive aggression.

Reactive aggression is sometimes termed impulsive or emotional aggression. It is the basis of the “fight or flight” impulse in humans and tends to operate in milliseconds. A stimulus produces near immediate response. (There is even an academic article title Masculinity in Milliseconds that discusses the correlation between higher testosterone levels and quicker aggressive reaction time.) Higher testosterone also tends to produce a greater level of reactive aggression. Males typically show far higher levels of reactive aggression than do females. This is the type of aggression that is controlled by castrating domestic animals. Oxen and geldings show far less reactive aggression than bulls or stallions.

Reflective aggression, sometimes termed cognitive aggression, on the other hand, is planned and intentional. It can be completely cold and calculating and it is not testosterone dependent. Castration does not seem to effect it at all and females can show just as much reflective aggression as males. They can calmly and carefully plan and carry out an aggressive act.

The social psychologist James McBride Dabbs performed testosterone tests on over 8,000 men to correlate testosterone with aggression. It is well known that testosterone levels tend to decrease with age after about the mid-20s, so it was important to age-normalize levels for comparative purposes. His findings are interesting for our purposes.

In the military (study funded by the Department of Defense), he found that (age-normalized) the higher the rank, the lower the testosterone levels. Generals had the lowest level and privates the highest. In business, the same was true. Higher level managers had lower testosterone levels than those who worked under them. In both cases, reflective aggression was a key to leadership ability. Planning and calculation were more important than instant reactive action.

In the ancient civilizations of the Old World, we should not be surprised that many high-ranking and effective military officers were eunuchs—lower reactive aggression and better able to organize, plan, and direct reflective aggressive actions than those with higher T levels. At lower military ranks in the ancient world, eunuchs played only a minor role. Early chariot warfare used multi-person chariots. Often the driver was a eunuch who could plan where most effectively to head, and the sword and shield bearing warriors were intact men who reacted aggressively and instantly to the situation the eunuch driver placed them in without needing careful reflection. The Assyrian military had ranks of eunuch archers. Planning, calculation, and cooperation were critical to success within massed ranks.

Again, in the ancient world, eunuchs performed well in bureaucratic and administrative positions. Reflective action was more important than instant reaction.

One of my colleagues has speculated that the drone pilots stationed in Utah, who direct drone operations world-wide, might function more effectively if they were all eunuchs—careful planning and selection of targets without impulsive action.

Excellent post Jesus and I'd agree that excess testosterone can not only lead to aggression, but poor decisions. However, I have twin two year old grand sons no doubt lacking testosterone and yet apparently reincarnations of Viking Berserkers. They viciously fight each other and if angered won't hesitate to whack an adult. So much for testosterone being the sole cause of aggression. And their behavior is not due to their paternal lack of discipline.

Jesus,

I m honored you found my post worth discussing in more scientific terms and that studies have been done to look into what I was asking about in my posts.

I m thinking some men have lots of both kinds of aggression in them. But I also know both men are women who do seem to act on only one kind of aggression most of the time.

Seanthomas,

I wonder if that same masculinization, hormones, and gentics that cause male embryos to first develop a penis and testicles might also greatly affect the male brain and personality in major ways. I bet any newborn nursery nurse can tell many stories of the variety of behaviors they see on display in newborns. At an age where outside environmental influences have not yet impacted newborns yet. One big exception is newborn circumcision done right after birth. That surely must have a major impact on male infants that uncircumcised males and females do not experience. It would be very interesting to study the behavioral differences seen between freshly circumcised males and intact males as newborns and during boyhood and later in life.

I know watching boys enter puberty and the surge of testosterone and other male hormones does seem to trigger endless scuffling and contests of strength, bravery, pain tolerance, and risk taking in far greater amounts than are seen in pre puberty boys. Just one years in age difference can cause so much change in behavior in a boy. Its really striking when you watch whole groups of boys at those pre and post testosterone ages. The difference in similarly aged girls is even more strikingly different from testosterone influenced boys of the same ages.

Wonderful post! Thank you Jesus.

Do you have a Dabbs reference for "

JesusA (imported) wrote: Sun Feb 17, 2019 8:26 pm the higher the rank, the lower the testosterone levels.

"?

The wiki page, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_M._Dabbs_Jr. states rather the reverse, " Dabbs re-framed the connection to be between testosterone and dominance behaviors. In his view, aggression was one of several possible mechanisms by which dominance could occur."...."He also found high testosterone men and women often had high status occupations."

Not quite the same thing as your post, but is, as is often so, this wiki in sore need of editing improvement?

If so, I can't think of a more qualified to do it!

I never wanted to be a general anyway!

I recall in psyche 101 my freshman year a lecture on "nature versus nurture" with the professor leaning heavy on the nurture theory while I argued that our personality traits were 90% determined in the womb. Of course I was probably just arguing for the sake of arguing, but years later I had two sons and could validate my theory. The first was a sweet trouble free child, while his brother was just the opposite. It's not that the younger was bad, but damn was he stubborn and headstrong. You could discipline the first with a firm voice, while the second at three got his little butt whacked by his mom, turned to her and said: "Nice try Mom?". Disciplining that boy was a challenge. Fortunately both grew up to be fantastic young men.

So my point is that aggression and other masculine traits in boys are as much, if not more, cerebral as hormonal.

Thank you Jesus - for a fascinating topic. My own experience is that low-T has made me a lot less reactive and that probably has helped me in both my professional and private life. I'm much better in focusing my efforts and my wife and I have never gotten along better. I let aggressive drivers go on their way rather than having them trigger more than a tiny bit of anger. Why waste energy on them when you can't have any effect on them? I do still honk when one does something dangerous.