Hello! I'm new here, having just discovered EA recently and reading quite a bit about peoples' experiences. I have some questions about peoples' experiences living with no T and no E, but first I'd like to get some things off my chest about why I feel this may be something for me.

Having never identified as "a man" in the way our hyper-masculine culture sees "manhood," I feel like a foreigner in the world despite living on it for 30 years. It's not that I don't feel comfortable in my own body - I'm not a woman trapped in a man's body as many transgender women are. I actually rather like my body aside from all the hair, which I've always desired to be rid of. The Romans saw unplucked body hair as something only for barbarians, not civilized men, and I can only agree completely where my own body is concerned. Developing female breasts would be unfortunate, as I like my "flat" look, but it's something I would accept if it solved my other problems. Furthermore, I am addicted to the dopamine rush brought on by an orgasm and sometimes experience unwanted, disturbing sexual thoughts in "flashes" about people I'm not remotely sexually attracted to - an addiction and mental phenomenon I desperately want to be rid of. That said, I abhor actual sex as messy and disgusting. Testosterone combined with natural anxiety makes me very nervous around people because I feel like I have to be "a real man" even though it's antithetical to who I am. It also makes me very awkward around women. I've known since I was little that I never want children and have never changed my mind, and would feel no qualms whatsoever telling people I have no testicles (in the right context, not just blurting it out randomly) - and it would be very freeing socially to not have the expectations of "manhood" hoisted upon me. Lastly, I love to sing and always regretted that I was not castrated as a boy. While I'll never achieve that perfect castrato range or be the next Farinelli, some vocal change - even just half an octave higher - would be a welcome effect.

For these reasons, I'm seriously considering becoming a eunuch; just getting the testicles removed, and possibly the sack - the hose performs a useful function and can stay. I believe it will solve many psychological and social issues for me, and for a person who is basically never truly relaxed and has always had difficulties with anxiety, sexual and non-sexual, I covet the eunuch calm.

So going from thinking about it to actually doing it, I'm wondering what my first step should be. I've considered chemical castration first to be certain it's for me - if I do this, which medications would you recommend for no-T/no-E? Is there a way to sell this to my GP to get insurance to cover it, or am I better off just ordering the stuff myself? I live within a day's drive of Dr. Arnkoff's practice (major stroke of luck!), so that's already a problem solved if I like the effects and want to go the traditional, irreversible route.

Then there's the issue of side effects of having no sex hormones. Most of them don't concern me, but the possibilities of loss of mental sharpness and memory, and osteoporosis concern me greatly. The latter I can stave off with calcium and vitamin D supplements, or so I've read (is this still a danger unless I take some T?), but the former truly terrifies me - I know it's different for everyone, but the idea is to improve my state of mind, not the other way around. Is there any sort of "brain supplement" or something to reduce the chances of it becoming an issue, or is it just a risk I take? Any advice on lifestyle choices generally to stay healthy as a eunuch?

The concept of being castrated and going on T seems a bit foreign to me, but reading through this forum it seems a lot of people do it. My thought is that if I wanted T and all the tradeoffs that go with it I'd stay the way I am now, producing it naturally. Prior to the very recent development of HRT, all eunuchs had to live without, and that was kind of the point of being a eunuch. That said, I'm interested in hearing peoples' reasons for getting castrated and subsequently going on T.

Phew, that was longer than I intended. Thanks for reading, I look forward to hearing from you!

Hello Decimus,

Thank you for your comprehensive introduction. It is a great pleasure to read that. There are a number of similarities between us both. I am not a male man, as a child I was seen as a girl. Even my best friends called me by the feminine form of my name, but I never saw myself as a girl or a woman. I did, however, like to have small breasts at the age of twelve. A boy with breasts and a bald little penis. As identity I see myself as a (not yet) castrated man, a eunuch. Just like you, I find the penis snake practical to keep.

I was a choirboy with an alto voice and I was aware that only by castration an exceptional boy's voice could be maintained. In my case, I got a nice bass baritone for my not exceptional alto.

Furthermore, I got a big bunch of pubic and armpit hair and there was also further body hair. I hated that and from then on the struggle to get and keep a hairless body started. The body hair disappears after a castration, possibly with the exception of pubic and armpit hair, but an absolute advantage of a castration without T.

I could write more, but take a break now.

You are lucky to live in Michigan where dr Arnkoff practices. Should you decide that castration is a life enhancing step for you, you have a safe, legal highly experienced doctor within driving distance.

Decimus that was very well articulated. Thank you for the straight forward way of putting it all down for others to read. And yes, having testosterone constantly being produced is a major pain in the backside for many of us. Which of course is why I had surgery. I only wish I would have had the opportunity of reading this site back then as while I would have still had the surgery to remove all of the external male anatomy I may have found a different way of dealing with the issues of not enough hormones in my body. When it became a realization that something was needed after lacking hormones for a long time I just could not bring myself to taking "T". I opted to go the "E" route without much medical follow-up. In fact none. That was an error on my part as without realizing it while my body began to feel better and my strength, stamina and energy levels returned to a normal sense, I did not realize that the body was also changing to look more feminine. In time realization came with the development of breasts but also I felt so back to normal that I probably overdid the "E" for many years. As a result I ended up looking very feminine and growing older as such. I have no regret now and enjoy life to its fullest. SO if you're not comfortable try chemicals first to see if it is for you. If so, just follow your instincts. We each have our own path that is best for us. There are no right or wrong answers on this topic. Only our individual answers for ourselves alone. Good luck on your adventure

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Hey, Peter, good to hear from you!

Glad I'm not alone growing up not being the masculine boy people expected of me. The other boys would want to play in the mud, ride bikes and four-wheelers, work on cars, and I preferred to embroider, write calligraphy, sing, study Latin, and play strategy games indoors. I often got chided by my very masculine brother when I'd make comments about disliking the hair appearing on my body and the expectation that I get a girlfriend and have sex, hoping that I'd inherit my grandfather's alopecia (it runs in the family and I was hopeful, but no luck) for preferring to settle any conflict without aggression, and even for things as simple as my more feminine standing pose and gait. We get along well now, it just took him a long time to get used to the way I am.

I also had a high alto voice! With castration to keep it that way and a lot of practice to raise it I have no doubt it could have gone higher, but I suppose I'll never find out. Can't blame my parents for not having it done - aside from the legality, it's a procedure that doesn't even enter the heads of most parents these days. That, and I never had the courage to ask for or even mention it. I'll always remember a particular trip to the pediatrician when he put on his gloves, reached down into my pants, counted "one, two," and told my mother everything appears healthy down there. Admittedly I was disappointed, but said nothing. Like you, I now sing bass/baritone and am satisfied with it, but wouldn't at all mind moving to tenor if castration changes it.

Losing body hair is one thing I really look forward to! Even though I try, I'm often too lazy to keep it all shaven, and subsequently prefer long sleeves and never, ever wear shorts. I'd love to be able to proudly display smooth, hairless legs and arms and stay cooler in the summer, completely comfortable in my own skin for the first time since the onset of puberty.

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Hi Begoneboy, thanks for the kind words!

Okay, explained that way I can definitely see the advantage to being able to choose your own hormone dosage (or lack thereof) rather than having it just be automatically produced and be unable to control the amount. So long as you're satisfied with your own body and how it turned out that's the important part! For myself, I do worry about becoming more feminized externally than I feel internally, so that's good to know regarding estrogen. If there were a real reduction in energy and bone mass after a time without hormones, I suppose I would have to consider HRT, but it sounds like a difficult balancing act to keep the flat, hairless "neutral" look I'm going for.

I've read that chemical castration can actually result in even less testosterone than physical castration, and consequently more bone density loss, because it also suppresses the T from the adrenal gland, but even so it does seem sensible to try it out before undergoing something I can never undo. Sounds like a trip to my GP is in order for a referral!

Decimus, I definitely think you should do a trial castration (chemical) before you go surgical. I didn't need a GP referral; I found a source of Procur (Cyproterone Acetate) from a pharmacy in the South Pacific region that didn't require a prescription. Google it.

Cyproterone works in two ways. First, it occupies the testosterone receptors in androgen dependent cells (like semen producing cells - the prostate, seminal vesicles, and epididymis) so that testosterone cannot activate them. By blocking testosterone, Cyproterone stops those parts from producing more cells and eventually they atrophy and stop making semen.

Secondly, after taking Cyproterone for several weeks, the blood becomes full of it, and the hypothalamus, mistaking it for testosterone, signals the pituitary glad that there is too much, and the pituitary stops making leutenizing hormones, which causes the testicles to stop making testosterone.

When I was taking Cyproterone, my testosterone level was 79, vs 600 or so for a normal male. 79 is just over the range for a female, but since I had a lot more Cyproterone in my blood than testosterone, most testosterone was getting blocked and little was getting to my semen producing cells. The testosterone level for a female is around 25-75, and the goal for a castrated prostate cancer patient is below 50, preferably below 20. With a level of 79 and probably 90% blockage, my effective testosterone was probably 5-10! I was truly well castrated.

Before starting Cyproterone, I was in a sexless marriage and was constantly horny and frustrated.

I took Cyproterone full time for five years and, for various reasons was on and off it for another four years. I loved being castrated. Within a few months I had lost almost all all of my sex drive and felt very calm and satisfied. When you ejaculate you feel good because you relieve all the pressure in you seminal glands; when you've been castrated, you don't get that pressure in the first place. The feelings of just having had sex and of being in a castrated state are very similar.

I never lost the ability to have an erection and could have performed sexually had my wife wanted me to. However, within a year, my seminal glands dried up entirely and my orgasms were "dry". My testicles, with nothing left to do, shrank to the size of almonds.

Finally, for health reasons, I had to stop Cyproterone. As sexual desire returned, I started looking for a permanent surgical solution until I hooked up with a female my age who still likes sex. Today I am sexually active and happy, but I do not regret those nine years . If my current partner ever lost interest in sex and said she wanted me to be castrated surgically, I happily comply.

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Hi Lee, thanks for the advice and all the good info!

I never understood before exactly how "T-blockers" work, so that's really good to know. One concern I had was that it would affect the adrenal gland, the only source of a minimal, necessary testosterone level after castration, but it sounds much more benign than I'd expected. As it stands now, I have an appointment with my GP and will attempt to get insurance to cover the medication, but am not counting on it - it never hurts to ask - and will get blood and bone density testing scheduled at that time as well. Once that's all done, I intend to go forward with... well, I was thinking Androcur, but will definitely look into Procur as well now that you've suggested it!

Experimentation with various T levels is something that interests me greatly the more I think about it, although with chemical castration I take it there's not much that can be done to tinker with the level. 79 sounds, to someone who has yet to experience it, fairly perfect. Still more than an average woman, but low enough to be "emasculated" and be done with sexuality and male aggression. I have no doubt that every assumption I make currently about the effects of different levels will be shattered once I'm actually there, of course. Keeping the ability to actually have an erection despite little to no sex drive does sound intriguing, though - I do desire a life partner someday, just as a largely-sexless relationship. Perhaps the ability to "perform" now and then if requested would come in handy for that.

Can I ask what the health reasons were that made you stop Cyproterone? This is a process I want to go into expecting every possible negative side effect so I don't get blindsided. Besides, that way any lack of negative effects will come as a pleasant surprise.

Decimus. (imported) wrote: Sat Jun 16, 2018 8:03 pm I'll always remember a particular trip to the pediatrician when he put on his gloves, reached down into my pants, counted "one, two," and told my mother everything appears healthy down there. Admittedly I was disappointed, but said nothing.

Hi Decimus,

I'll also

Decimus. (imported) wrote: Sat Jun 16, 2018 8:03 pm remember a particular trip to the pediatrician,

but my feelings were a little different. I see myself guided by my mother to the local health service seeing an old doctor. I had to undress, only keeping my briefs on. Several examinations were donn. The cold stethoscope on my chest and back "Yes, good breathing." He took my penis out of my brief and withdraw my foreskin. "That looks good, keep it clean." He told about boys with phimosis. Then he went with his cold hand inside my brief and kneaded my two balls. Touching my penis was not very special, but this kneading my balls by the old doctor was just lovely. It were only a few seconds, but the impact was gigantic. It was all OK too and this time he told about boys with undescended testicles, which needed an operation. I wondered how that would feel with the balls inside the abdomen and the descending of the balls.

I must say that from that moment I envied that old doctor and do I have something with "BALLS".

Decimus. (imported) wrote: Fri Jun 29, 2018 5:57 pm Hi Lee, thanks for the advice and all the good info!

I never understood before exactly how "T-blockers" work, so that's really good to know.

First, Procur is generic Androcur. When I first started chemical castration, the only available source of Cyproterone Acetate was Androcur, so I used it. Then they came out with generic Androcur; it was called Siterone and cost about half of the cost of Androcur. Today, my South Pacific source says Siterone has been discontinued and they are currently out of stock for Androcur, but they do have Procur. All three are tablets of 50mg Cyproterone for about $1 per day, depending on the size of your order.

In the beginning all I knew was that Cyproterone overwhelms the natural Testosterone in the blood by about 10:1, so that 90% of the Testosterone receptors would be occupied by Cyproterone, which would prevent Testosterone from doing it's work. I thought that Testosterone production was still the same. When I finally became a patient of an endocrinologist, she did a blood test and it showed that my testosterone was 79 ng/dl, compared to 690 ng/dl before Cyproterone (of the 79, probably less than 10% was actually getting to the cells). She explained that there was a negative feedback - my body saw a lot of Cyproterone, which it mistook for too much Testosterone, and signaled my testicles to stop making it.

The 79 ng/dl was probably due to adrenal androgens, which were probably still being produced at the same rate as before.

As for erections, I never stopped getting them, although only by choice (no morning woodies), but everyone is different.

My testicles shrunk and my orgasms were dry.