Does Androcur + Raloxifene cause any feminization/

[McAndro92 (imported)]

Hello friends!

I have a question regarding feminization during use of the aforementioned chemicals.

I have recently tapered off of 5 days 150mg Androcur, down to 100mg daily for about a month, all the way down to 50mg I started taking about a week and a half ago. I'm pretty sure my T is nuked and I simply don't get erections anymore unless the gf is around (which is weird because then I'm always horny???), and as of a few days ago started taking bioestra gel to get some slight level of estrogen into my body. I'm mainly doing all this because I'm seeking an androgynous/slightly feminine face and body and my hair is very thin along my entire scalp and I'm hoping low T and low to moderate estrogen will help all of those things. I'm still not sure if it's MPB because the hair loss pattern very closely resembles female pattern loss or thyroid hair loss. But I digress.

My main question here is what effects can be expected from Raloxifene/Tamoxifen with androcur? I was hoping for some body fat redistribution, maybe a rounder face (and of course no breast growth), and most importantly a full thick head of hair again. However, all of the experiences I've read into with people trying to achieve the same as me seems to point that even though it activates CERTAIN estrogen receptors, it doesn't affect the ones I was hoping for. I'll probably get on it at some point so I can lower my androcur dose and not worry about T rising, but I was hoping for some solid facts on whether I can expect some slight feminine good-ness.

By the power of Androcur I summon hkeunuch to do my bidding!!! Lol!! Any info that can give me a better scope of what to expect greatly appreciated.

Bonus question I would love some info on!!!

If I take some sort of estrogen either orally, injected, conjugated or otherwise, in addition to Androcur+Ralox/Tamox, could I possibly achieve fem qualities with no breasts, as well as the positive effects of having a dominant hormone? I would reeeaaalllyyy love some info on this as well. Thanks in advance for any and all responses!!! Have a great eunuch day!!!!

[Newhalfx (imported)]

Hi McAndro,

The pairing of any AA/SERM will effectively provide "gender neutral" results. Your breasts are extremely unlikely to develop noticeably, but your nipples may get a bit sore. Your mileage will vary regarding any facial changes; it's more that your skin will change rather than anything subdermal. Same goes for fat distribution; you would likely only witness that if you were pairing an AA & estrogen for 18+ months.

Your last question is a very interesting one, and I actually didn't have the answer for you. I just checked some self-medding Trans boards I follow, and chatted with a "DIY" transgirl friend of mine about this. The general perception is yes, pairing a SERM and estrogen would provide feminizing effects without breast growth. You'll want to seriously consider the side effects, though - please keep reading. AA's, SERM's, and synthetic estrogens are all fairly serious medications, and all of them have their share of side effects. Raloxifene is still fairly experimental, but anti-androgens (Androcur especially) and some estrogens can be pretty heavy on your liver; especially after extensive periods of use.

That being said, if you wanted to go that path, I'd recommend a bicalutamide/raloxifene/estradiol combination. Androcur has probably the scariest side-effects and long-term risks of the AA's, in my opinion, and Bica is really worth the extra money; especially if there's estrogen in the mix. I say estradiol because you can inject it and negate the liver issue, but you could also take estrofem sublingualy. I hadn't heard of anyone trying this with ralox, as it's so new, so you're kind of in uncharted waters there. If nothing else, you should likely see an endocrinologist on the regular to ensure you're staying healthy. If you find you enjoy your results, you may want to consider getting the orchie and simplifying things with just estrogen & ralox.

Let us know how it goes!

[McAndro92 (imported)]

Hi McAndro,

The pairing of any AA/SERM will effectively provide "gender neutral" results. Your breasts are extremely unlikely to develop noticeably, but your nipples may get a bit sore. Your mileage will vary regarding any facial changes; it's more that your skin will change rather than anything subdermal. Same goes for fat distribution; you would likely only witness that if you were pairing an AA & estrogen for 18+ months.

Your last question is a very interesting one, and I actually didn't have the answer for you. I just checked some self-medding Trans boards I follow, and chatted with a "DIY" transgirl friend of mine about this. The general perception is yes, pairing a SERM and estrogen would provide feminizing effects without breast growth. You'll want to seriously consider the side effects, though - please keep reading. AA's, SERM's, and synthetic estrogens are all fairly serious medications, and all of them have their share of side effects. Raloxifene is still fairly experimental, but anti-androgens (Androcur especially) and some estrogens can be pretty heavy on your liver; especially after extensive periods of use.

That being said, if you wanted to go that path, I'd recommend a bicalutamide/raloxifene/estradiol combination. Androcur has probably the scariest side-effects and long-term risks of the AA's, in my opinion, and Bica is really worth the extra money; especially if there's estrogen in the mix. I say estradiol because you can inject it and negate the liver issue, but you could also take estrofem sublingualy. I hadn't heard of anyone trying this with ralox, as it's so new, so you're kind of in uncharted waters there. If nothing else, you should likely see an endocrinologist on the regular to ensure you're staying healthy. If you find you enjoy your results, you may want to consider getting the orchie and simplifying things with just estrogen & ralox.

Let us know how it goes!

Oh wow!!! Thank you for such a detailed and well thought out response!!! I suppose I should have known about the gender neutral effect taking Ralox and AA!!! But that's fine!!! I think what I'd like to end up trying is just a supplemement of Raloxifene in addition to the Androcur and Bioestra gel! I'm not sure how well the gel is going to work, but I've been on it twice a day and so far feel a little better mentally, although that may just be placebo. However if it does work I'm hoping a little bit of that can keep my liver toxicity down if I taper down to 12.5mg andro at the same time! I've heard that after it builds up that that's a good maintenance dose and is safer + saves money!!!

And man I would love to get an orchie!!! Sadly my girlfriend isn't 100% sure that in the future she wont want kids and would probably think it was extreme of me to get the cut off! But maybe someday!!! Thanks again for the awesome response!!! Looks like I have a little more research to do before I make any big decisions!!!

[SplitDik (imported)]

Raloxifene will definitely not feminize. In fact the lack of feminization is why it is called a "selective estrogen" modulator and it is used by bodybuilders to reduce breasts.

[sftineun (imported)]

Hi McAndro,

You summoned hkeunuch. Here I am. I used that user ID in the past. Then I took a long hiatus from EA after I became a permanent chemical eunuch. When I am ready to return to EA, that account got locked. So, I have to get this new ID.

Anyhow, as answered already above, Tamoxifen or Raloxifene are used to prevent feminization, specifically breast growth. They also help alleviate some of the effects of Androcur or low testosterone, namely, gaining weight, severe fatigue, etc.

As Tamoxifen and Raloxifene act relatively similarly, PLEASE USE ONLY ONE. I have switched from Tamoxifen to Raloxifene because the latter is often prescribed to women to prevent osteoporosis, which is also one major health risk from low testosterone, and this serious health condition starts with just weakening of bones quietly. So please be very mindful of this when starting Androcur.

I would like to address Newhalfx's comment on dangerously overloading the liver. When I started supplementing Androcur with Tamoxifen, I was able to achieve the same eunuch effects with significantly lowered dosage. When I first started with Androcur alone, I was still getting libido and erections at 200 mg/day, which is a dangerously high dosage. When I later supplemented Androcur with Tamoxifen, I was able to maintain near zero libido and no erections at only 25 mg/day of Androcur, and 10 mg/day of Tamoxifen. I was lucky because I have my liver and kidney functions checked every 3 months due to my other medications (cholesterol and high blood pressure). And I was lucky that the whole lot of medications did not cause liver or kidney damage. However, everyone's body take to medications differently. It is best to at least get liver and kidney functions checked a few times a year.

I also agree with the comments above that the combination of Androcur and either Tamoxifen or Raloxifene would not cause any significant body fat redistribution.

However, given what you described as your goal of definitely no breast growth, I would not recommend estradiol, as I am quite sure it will cause breast growth. Estradiol would also cause fat redistribution, as it is a form of estrogen. I do not know of any drug / drug combination that can give you fat redistribution without breast growth. More research would be recommended.

Additionally, if you might wish to have babies at some point, I would urge you to make a collection at the sperm bank. The longer you use Androcur, the more damage to your testes will occur, all the way until infertility sets in permanently. I am quite sure I am totally infertile. And I would venture to guess that before infertility, the health of the sperm will begin to suffer from Androcur use. IF you do use estrodoil at all, infertility will take hold even faster.

When any of this will start taking effect or become permanent on you is anybody's guess. Some posts on EA estimated to be about 6 months of Androcur use for castration effects to start becoming irreversible. My own experience took around that amount of time. Again, everybody's mileage is different.

The key point is that if you take Androcur long enough, the net effect on your testicles in terms of production of healthy sperms is no different from having gotten an orchidectomy. So, I would definitely refrain from using Androcur at all if I had any possible wish to have children later.

Finally, about hair loss. I lost most of my body hair, except the beard. But I also help the process along with an epilator.

However, thankfully, my family do not have male pattern baldness on the head, so I do not have that to worry about. As such, I cannot share with you any experience about stopping hair loss on the head from use of Androcur. But from all the research I had done so far, I do not recall coming across any post that suggest use of Androcur as an effective way to prevent hair loss from the head.

All the best to you.