The more i think about my eventual castration and potential nullo (i'm polyamorous and one partner is standing in the way for now), the less comfortable i get with identifying as "male." This is true, even though i plan to continue to present as traditionally "masculine." i know that transgender persons are whatever they say they identify as, regardless of whether they have been on hormones or had any surgery. In that sense, i wonder whether someone like me, who probably is a few years away from getting the surgery it needs so badly, can fairly identify its gender as "eunuch" before anything gets removed? Does it make a difference that the testicles attached to me are atrophying and losing sensation--evidence that they are dying slowly in place?

Welcome! Yes, I think that´s possible. Personally all my life I´ve been "neutral tend to be feminine" . I have never I´ve identified myself as a man and just recently I´m discovering that posibbly there´s a womam inside me, struggling to break out. I´m very complex. But what you say about feeling as an eunuch before the surgery is absolutely true. Many of here surely help you more than I could about of being an eunuch.

Blessings:)

My gender identity was "eunuch" before surgery since in fact I was physically a eunuch from a hormonal standpoint. I never completely developed.

I guess I'm a eunuch snob. I feel that you can feel as if you are meant to be a eunuch before surgery, but you're not actually a eunuch until you've been clipped.

Considering the pain I had to go through to get there, I kind of feel justified in that view. It doesn't mean others are necessarily insincere, they just are not eunuchs, yet.

The definition of Eunuch for centuries has meant a male who was castrated at any age. Before your testicles went you were not a Eunuch. The term did not change if your penis was also removed. That is the way I see it. However, if you want to identify yourself as a Eunuch go right ahead. I doubt you will be asked to prove it.

Losethem (imported) wrote: Thu Apr 09, 2015 7:10 pm I guess I'm a eunuch snob. I feel that you can feel as if you are meant to be a eunuch before surgery, but you're not actually a eunuch until you've been clipped.

Considering the pain I had to go through to get there, I kind of feel justified in that view. It doesn't mean others are necessarily insincere, they just are not eunuchs, yet.

Considering that in transgendered patients, they can identify as female long before hormones or surgery starts.

I believe the original question here pertains to "identity", which is located between your ears - not between your legs.

In that case, I would have to say "yes", in that you could be a eunuch upstairs while not being so downstairs.

Paolo is absolutely correct on this. We need to separate "biological sex" (the plumbing system) from "gender identity" (which lies between the ears).

In addition, there is "sexual orientation" (what plumbing system and, for some what species, one is sexually attracted to) and "gender expression" (how one presents oneself in public). There are many more aspects of sex and gender, but these are the four that are most important. Anyone who has come this far in reading the Eunuch Archive also understands that none of these four can be reduced to a simple male/female binary. All include a wide variety of possibilities.

There is a great deal of discussion among sex researchers and counselors these days about the increasing number of young people whose gender identity, sexual orientation, and gender expression lie outside the binary. I was part of a recent discussion about how to obtain insurance coverage for breast reduction for biological females whose gender identity is outside the binary, but who do not want any testosterone therapy, nor do they want to present publicly as male. I know of psychiatrists who are prescribing hormone blockers for biological males as young as 12 who do not want to go through male puberty, but who do not want to be female either. The human zoo is becoming more interesting by the day....

A zoo indeed.

Having been actually all through what it takes to get to eunuch, I can say there is a world of difference between anything one might imagine oneself to be and what it actually turns out to be. No, while it is a convenient philosophical point to divide the sex and gender, maybe not actually so simple. Neuroscientists who doubt, do a Google (or other) for how LH and Testosterone work together with the inputs from connections to the hypothalamic brain nuclei. It doesn't look like the balls are physically connected to the brain, but the connection is close, and so are the consequences for brain function, including identity of self. -including and inconvenient usual links between sex and gender, and disposition. Otherwise we would not castrate people and animals expecting a predictable effect.

A zoo indeed: there are many here who report only little link between hormonal environment and personal psyche. Are these people for real? Clearly. They include many who have been famous for achievement (Military, competitive professional environments) normally associated with qualities that might be expected to be diminished by castration.

Administratively and academically inconvenient, but it might be that children and adults with fears of the future world, and many other anxieties (including matters that might have to do with gender-sex) might not actually belong to gender neuroscience at all, but more the psychiatric realm of helping folks survive and thrive in an anxiety-provoking world.

Just as valid, but not the same?

I could support that a person is an MtE BEFORE surgery, but they are not an E until they've had it. Maybe I'm harsh, a snob, etc. but considering the amounts of pain I had to go through to become a eunuch, I don't consider folks ACTUAL eunuchs until they been snipped. Especially with the amount of wankers we have that will never do anything and constantly badger the community.

I'm sure someone will go, "but what about MtF's, are they not female before their surgery?" I would say NO, but I would treat them as female because that is what they want, using appropriate pronouns, etc. For me it's the present physical state being what the person is. While I may feel like I'm a nullo, I will not BE a nullo until my dick has been taken off. I hope that clears up where I stand on these things. I'm very supportive of changes people want to make, but I can't say a person is something until they have crossed the surgical finish line.

--LT