>>Ah, Mother Nature has this fun habit of never doing exactly what is expected.

>>After all this effort, physicists everywhere can be heard loudly exclaiming:

>>WHAT?

>>

Two Higgs Bosons? CERN Scientists Revisit Large Hadron Collider Particle Data

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/1 ... ef=science

By Michael Moyer

A month ago scientists at the Large Hadron Collider released the latest Higgs boson results. And although the data held few obvious surprises, most intriguing were the results that scientists didn’t share.

The original Higgs data from back in July had shown that the Higgs seemed to be decaying into two photons more often than it should—an enticing though faint hint of something new, some sort of physics beyond our understanding. In November, scientists at the Atlas and LHC experiments updated everything except the two-photon data. This week we learned why.

Yesterday researchers at the Atlas experiment finally updated the two-photon results. What they seem to have found is bizarre—so bizarre, in fact, that physicists assume something must be wrong with it. Instead of one clean peak in the data, they have found two. There seems to be a Higgs boson with a mass of 123.5 GeV (gigaelectron volts, the measuring unit that particle physicists most often use for mass), and another Higgs boson at 126.6 GeV—a statistically significant difference of nearly 3 GeV. Apparently, the Atlas scientists have spent the past month trying to figure out if they could be making a mistake in the data analysis, to little avail. Might there be two Higgs bosons?

Although certain extensions of the Standard Model of particle physics postulate the existence of multiple Higgs bosons, none of them would predict that two Higgs particles would have such similar masses. They also don’t predict why one should preferentially decay into two Z particles (the 123.5 GeV bump comes from decays of the Higgs into Zs), while the other would decay into photons.

The particle physicist Adam Falkowski (under the nom de plume Jester) writes that the results “most likely signal a systematic problem rather than some interesting physics.” (By “systematic problem” he means something like a poorly-calibrated detector.) The physicist Tommaso Dorigo bets that it’s a statistical fluke that will go away with more data. Indeed, he’s willing to bet $100 on it with up to five people, in case you’re the kind of person who likes to wager on the results of particle physics experiments with particle physicists. The Atlas physicists are well aware of both of these possibilities, of course, and have spent the past month trying to shake the data out to see if they can fix it. Still, the anomaly remains.

But let’s not let this intriguing blip distract us from the original scent of new physics. Back when the preliminary data seemed to show that the Higgs was decaying into two photons more often than it should, I wrote that it could be “a statistical blip that would wash away in the coming flood of data.” But more data has now arrived, and the blip hasn’t gone anywhere. The Higgs boson continues to appear to be decaying into two photons nearly twice as often as it should.

All the more reason to stay tuned for the next big data release, currently scheduled for March.

Dave (imported) wrote: Mon Dec 17, 2012 5:11 pm >>Ah, Mother Nature has this fun habit of never doing exactly what is expected.

>>After all this effort, physicists everywhere can be heard loudly exclaiming:

>>WHAT?

>>

Two Higgs Bosons? CERN Scientists Revisit Large Hadron Collider Particle Data

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/1 ... ef=science

By Michael Moyer

A month ago scientists at the Large Hadron Collider released the latest Higgs boson results. And although the data held few obvious surprises, most intriguing were the results that scientists didn’t share.

The original Higgs data from back in July had shown that the Higgs seemed to be decaying into two photons more often than it should—an enticing though faint hint of something new, some sort of physics beyond our understanding. In November, scientists at the Atlas and LHC experiments updated everything except the two-photon data. This week we learned why.

Yesterday researchers at the Atlas experiment finally updated the two-photon results. What they seem to have found is bizarre—so bizarre, in fact, that physicists assume something must be wrong with it. Instead of one clean peak in the data, they have found two. There seems to be a Higgs boson with a mass of 123.5 GeV (gigaelectron volts, the measuring unit that particle physicists most often use for mass), and another Higgs boson at 126.6 GeV—a statistically significant difference of nearly 3 GeV. Apparently, the Atlas scientists have spent the past month trying to figure out if they could be making a mistake in the data analysis, to little avail. Might there be two Higgs bosons?

Although certain extensions of the Standard Model of particle physics postulate the existence of multiple Higgs bosons, none of them would predict that two Higgs particles would have such similar masses. They also don’t predict why one should preferentially decay into two Z particles (the 123.5 GeV bump comes from decays of the Higgs into Zs), while the other would decay into photons.

The particle physicist Adam Falkowski (under the nom de plume Jester) writes that the results “most likely signal a systematic problem rather than some interesting physics.

” (By “systematic problem”

Dave (imported) wrote: Mon Dec 17, 2012 5:11 pm he means something like a poorly-calibrated detector.) The physicist Tommaso Dorigo bets that it’s a statistical fluke that will go away with more data. Indeed, he’s willing to bet $100 on it with up to five people, in case you’re the kind of person who likes to wager on the results of particle physics experiments with particle physicists. The Atlas physicists are well aware of both of these possibilities, of course, and have spent the past month trying to shake the data out to see if they can fix it. Still, the anomaly remains.

But let’s not let this intriguing blip distract us from the original scent of new physics. Back when the preliminary data seemed to show that the Higgs was decaying into two photons more often than it should, I wrote that it could be “a statistical blip that would wash away in the coming flood of data.” But more data has now arrived, and the blip hasn’t gone anywhere. The Higgs boson continues to appear to be decaying into two photons nearly twice as often as it should.

All the more reason to stay tuned for the next big data release, currently scheduled for March.

Golly, could it be?!!!!; Initial hints at supersymetry?

Publication of the discovery of the positron was delayed for several months

because nobody involved could believe that such a thing existed.

There was a buzz about some discovery a while back and then nothing but silence and now we know why.

Luckily

I am an atheist and do not believe in the Higgs Boson.

Believe it or not, first you need to understand it, I don't.

I do understand they built this 17 mile circle that they send X and Y in opposite directions at near speed of light just to see them hit each other and .......... do what and why and who cares.

Like I asked a friend of mine years ago who worked at Lawrence Livermoore lab why it was important to measure light to 18 decimal positions, he walked away shaking his head like why would I ask such an question.

So I will guess that some people think this is a good thing, I am not going to worry about it one way or the other as I doubt it will ever effect my life in any way.

River

How to explain what all this means... Not a trivial question.

First, the Greeks believed that the Atom was the smallest building block of all things.

Atoms of gold, atoms of iron, atoms of many things.

But science discovered that atoms don't fully explain matter because there are molecules that are formed from these elements.

Science discovered air was oxygen and hydrogen... Sapphires and rubies were compounds of select atoms, crystalline structures unlike diamond that was all carbon, complex molecules of exquisite beauty. Granite and sandstone and limestone to build with

And science discovered that the atoms of the Greeks formed these molecules. And science asked the question -- what holds these atoms together.

SO they looked adn discovered that the Atom was not the smallest chunk of matter but atoms consisted of protons, electrons and neutrons .

But something was missing. Science discovered x-rays and ultraviolet waves and gravity.

So a grander and larger theory was constructed and it predicted subatomic particles with astounding properties - antimatter - positrons and reversed matter. The largest objects and the smallest objects seemed to follow different rules of behavior - planets behaved differently from all those tiny particles that made it what it is...

So science, wanting always to make order out of chaos, tried to put all of this into a framework.

And in an effort came quantum mechanics and all sorts of variant theories trying to create order.

How to create order from chaos...

You see, there are only four forces -electromagnetism, the Weak Force, the Strong Force and Gravity. That's it. Four.

The electron moderated (A fancy scientific word for the concept that electrons create and make possible) electricity and magnetism

Odd subatomic things like Quarks held the nucleus of atoms together (you see those protons don;t like to get close because they ahve the same charge like little magnets don;t like to get NORTHS together) But Quarks moderate teh Strong Force.

Th Weak Force is the force that lets radioactivity happen -- FUnky thing radioactivity - it's permits atoms to decay like nuclear reactions, the a-bomb, the h-bomb and the sun are all a work of nuclear reactions. Suns happen and light happens (photons) and x-rays and gamma rays happen and all that phenomena are possible because the Weak Force permits decay. And it is moderated by W and Z Bosons.

So what is gravity? Well that might sound like a stupid question as to why did that apple fall and hit Newton's head? but it isn't that obvious. The earth rotates around the sun because of gravity. Planets form because of gravity.

But what particle moderates gravity?

That particle is the Higgs Boson (and no it isn't "god" or even "godlike"... it jsut serves to moderate gravity like the electron moderates electricity or created the magnetic fields in electric motors). The Higgs boson creates the Higgs field and that is what we call gravity.

So here's the long and short of it -- science would be so simple if there were four elementals - earth air fire water. But there aren't. It would be slightly more complex with just atoms and no molecules. But it isn't. IT would be simple if there weren't electrons and x-rays and ultraviolet light (for cheesy nightclubs with awful bands). But it isn't.

however, there is, it seems one theory that can bring it all together and that is why CERN and the Large Hadron Collider - LHC - is searching for the Higgs Boson. To find out what theory links the four fundamental forces and all the particles of classical and quantum mechanics into one nice neat theory.

Then the Higgs Boson goes out and has a twin.

Damn it all, someone young genius has to think harder to explain that one...

And it might be triplets, the more the (Aw shit) merrier.

http://scienceblogs.com/startswithabang ... -universe/

Moi the higgs field is an intrinsic property of the universe(Don't ask where the higgs field comes from no one knows what happened pre big bang) that gives any matter it's mass. The more concentrated higgs exerts on an object, the heavier its mass. Light photons have the least exertion from the higgs field. Hence why their considered massless and since they are massless anything exceeding the speed of light is a violation of Einsteins equations. Nothing can go faster than aprox. (3e8)m/s.

I don't know how simplified my explanations I can get.Follow link above.

The reason it's hard to detect the higgs boson is bc it collapses very very very rapidly into subparticles. Boson, leptons, quarks, gluons etc....

What they do at cern is collide 2 particles enough times and collect data sorta like flipping a coin a billion times inorder to confirm the existence of the higgs particle with a very very low standard deviation within a very very good statistical bell curve model.

I love physics but frankly I won't be getting into it till I get a masters in mathematics first.

I always held math as the big brother for physics. Not the other way around.

I'm always confuzzled when peers mention physics as being easier than math.

Hello!!!!!!!..... Math only has one answer for whatever function you had initially.

Start with the basics and move foward. That's a common mistake students have, The think they can study whatever they want in whatever order. Ok ....fine....do that.....you'll only be hurting yourself.

I probably won't be getting into physics till my late 30's. My current goal is to finish my technologist program and work, start my hormones asap as soon as I grad and get out from my parents basement.

Physics is a life long dream I will pursue till I'm an old fart

NB = I f super symetry is somehow involved, it may help us get into crazy new theories.

Mutiverse theory. How about that. Moi you may have multiple instances of yourself across different parrallel universes. That alternate you may be even more succesful than you. Or very very deep in the shithole so to speak. Just hypothetically saying is all

The choices you make now, according to schodinger, will lead into a outcome of best fit. with the rest of the probable outcomes collapsing into different universes.

Youve all read schrodinger's cat eh?. The cat is both dead and alive till you open the box.

foxytaur (imported) wrote: Mon Dec 17, 2012 6:52 pm Golly, could it be?!!!!; Initial hints at supersymetry?

That is what popped into my mind as I read the article.

Elizabeth