River wind Quote: Also keep in mind that the English speak and write a different English then we do here in the USA. A common language separated by a ocean. It is to the point that books written in before written for the Americans. Case in point the Harry Potter books. Actually I look forward to reading them again in the original English I know that I will find them more colourful. <---- Yes it is spelled correctly. End Quote

I've started a new thread because it's a new topic.

I got into an argument with a learned man who claimed that we should talk about 'Englishes' rather than English because each English speaking country has its own version of English. I claim that admittedly there are minor differences in respect of spelling, pronunciation and vocabulary but the grammar and structure are the same everywhere. More importantly such differences as there may be are no impediment to communication. Hence all the Englishes are one language with minor variations. I exclude some Caribbean dialects from this argument.

What do you guys think? Are we all speaking English?

....

Kortpeel (imported) wrote: Fri Jan 20, 2012 12:35 pm Hence all the Englishes are one language with minor variations. I exclude some Caribbean dialects from this argument.

What do you guys think? Are we all speaking English?

I'm reminded of Prof. Harold Higgins in My Fair Lady:

"....The Scotch and the Irish leave you close to tears.

There are even places where English completely disappears.

In America, they haven't used it in years."

Language changes over time. Words disappear from use--when's the last time you heard something called outlandish, for example--and new words appear or take on new meanings: the Xmas carol line, "Don we now our gay apparel" once had no overtones of cross-dressing, for example, and technology has added countless words and word combinations like DVD, TiVo, computer, Windows, Microsoft, etc. Tiananmen Square used to simply refer to a place in Beijing (Peking?); now it's a symbol of popular opposition to tyranny. Just as Chaucer's English has vanished, the English(es) of today will vanish--slowly over time.

Whenever you separate two peoples with a common language for a century or two, this inevitable drift in language will tend to take a different path for each people. How much of the unofficial national anthem of Australia makes sense to the average American:

Once a jolly swagman camped by a billabong

Under the shade of a coolibah tree,

And he sang as he watched and waited till his billy boiled

"You'll come a-Waltzing Matilda, with me"

....

Down came a jumbuck to drink at that billabong,

Up jumped the swagman and grabbed him with glee,

And he sang as he shoved that jumbuck in his tucker bag,

"You'll come a-Waltzing Matilda, with me".

Even within the US, people in Alabama and people in New York have distinctly different accents and some vocabulary differences, and there are marked differences among the Englishes of different ethnic groups. Television and the Internet are helping to reduce the speed of divergence--the time is past when you had to be Jewish to know what chutzpah and schlep mean or Black to know what a jive-ass honky is--but it still happens.

And it's not just English. In Spain, "coger" is a common verb, meaning to catch; in Latin America it's the "F-bomb." Or compare Cajun French with the French spoken in Paris. Among the Pennsylvania Dutch, "ein flint" means a rifle; in Germany, it refers to a blunderbuss.

Even within a household, teenagers tend to speak an English that differs from that of their parents, though the difference is largely one of vocabulary.

So what's the bottom line? (Curiously, "bottom line" is itself an expression of fairly recent vintage.) As long as people understand each other and choose to call their language English, I don't know that there's any authority that can say they're wrong.

Sandi

My first thought to this was "have you ever listened to an Australian?" Well if you did, you would know that "strine" really is another form of English.

Yuns wouldn't know the difference between OI and EH unless you played Hockey or visited Manchester in your short life. Now I have to go DahnTahn and get some out-of-work mill hunk to cut me some pirogi with a can of pop.

There are two English languages.

Standard Midwest in America adopted by the American broadcast industry early on,

and The Queens English.

All else is rubbish. I am tired of hearing English spoken lyrically with dropped "R"'s.

If a modern day Mark Twain comes along and intentionally writes in "rubbish" English, we should know the difference.

A very good program aired ages ago was, "The Story of English" with Robert MacNeill.

Good study of the special evolution of English, grammatically unique from other western languages.

No gender agreements, Yea! Prepositions and word order too.

Moi

Back in the 70s I worked on zinc in east Tennessee. The drillers were southern boys (Rebels). The geologists were from the west (damned Yankees) except for a female Aussie geologist loaned from a sister company. It was almost necessary for a Yankee to accompany the Aussie to translate so the Rebel drillers understood.

WHAT, you don't like the New England Accent? Or the Brooklyn Jewish Accent? Or the deep south, You'll com back see us again you-hear. Or part of the local speak that you and I have talked about don't you know.

I remember reading the Harry Potter books, and learned that trainers were sneakers, a jumper was a sweater, the boot of a car was the trunk and that they the Brits don't use gas in their cars.

They use petrol.

So Moi, the next time your on thurtitird and thurtitid strwets, just remember you are thinking inside a box.

River

Riverwind (imported) wrote: Fri Jan 20, 2012 7:52 pm WHAT, you don't like the New England Accent? Or the Brooklyn Jewish Accent? Or the deep south, You'll com back see us again you-hear. Or part of the local speak that you and I have talked about don't you know.

I remember reading the Harry Potter books, and learned that trainers were sneakers, a jumper was a sweater, the boot of a car was the trunk and that they the Brits don't use gas in their cars.

They use petrol.

So Moi, the next time your on thurtitird and thurtitid strwets, just remember you are thinking inside a box.

River

Au contaire, River - Absolutest thinker.

I miss accents. They are special. Like the kid in American Gothic.

But, unless the role calls for an accent, I prefer the two standard English standards.

American Midwest and the Queens. Not Queens New Yoik.

So those newly acceptable Scot & Irish accents narrating Educational or Discovery programs, out!

Youbetchya.

Moi

English, "The Best Language In The World"!

I've even seen babies speak a few words of it.