Okay, recently thread I started was closed and an person got a bit irate at me for posting a link to a video because apparently it was stolen from another site. I think we seriously need to figure out a better way to handle this.

The first thing is I think people do like to look at pics and videos related to castration, because it is a high interest to people here. That's why I post links when I find them.

The second thing is that posting links is not copyright infringement, at least from any legal sense, even if the linked site is infringing. So I guess if people have a problem with the linking then the issue is related to people not wanting to support someone who is infringing. Right?

So I get that, but there is also the issue of telling when there is copyright infringement. If I don't recognize a video and it is not watermarked, then how do we tell? Also, furthermore there are many videos where the content owner might be quite fine with it being viewed or distributed -- i.e. the content owner may be legally licensing or permitting the site to show the content. In fact, in some cases maybe the content owner hopes to get money from the video being posted.

Since linking isn't copyright infringement, and because we really can't tell whether the linked site is infringing unless the owner is someone in the community, then I propose that we do one of the following:

a) don't allow links to vids or pics at all, based on the premise that we expect most content to be infringing and assuming people can do their own google searching to find it on their own.

b) allow links in the spirit of research compilation and have a standard warning about not supporting infringing sites. If someone on the Forum or outside is credibly the owner and notifies us, then we can put a more forceful statement that the link IS infringing.

c) only allow links where a member is credibly an owner of the content themselves.

I personally think that from a research perspective that we should have a complete archive of links. I don't think there is any legal issue, but I also understand the "moral" issue raised by potentially supporting an infringer. In any case, I think we need a clearer policy because just relying on people to recognize vids and then criticize the poster doesn't serve any purpose well.

Thoughts?

9 out of 10 links I've seen on the archive for videos are content stolen from elsewhere.

The reason I jumped you on the last one is because that link had been posted here at least 3 times, and recently enough that you should have seen it. It was posted with the original soundtrack at least once and these past two times it has been edited with the title card at the beginning removed and the music changed.

I did not call you a thief for I don't think you are one, but I did feel strongly that you've been here long enough to have known better than to post that video link since the video had been identified as stolen at least twice on the EA, and you've been here long enough to know that.

In your options above, I personally support Option C with exceptions made to news articles. That's the only way we can be sure the content is not stolen. Option B is not good because it basically says, "We know this links to stolen content, but go watch it anyhow..." Which is theft in my opinion because at that point you know its stolen and you're aiding more theft. Option A would be unreasonable because people are going to post links anyhow.

--LT

Whats the big deal? So what. Anything posted on the web can be seen by anyone. If it is a link, what difference does it make if it is clicked

on here or one posted by the host site?

Thanks LoseThem and dualballs. You've expressed both sides of the issue well.

As mentioned, there is no legal issue in linking, only a "moral" one in the sense we may do harm to the original owners of the content.

But then I guess my question for LoseThem is: how much do you think the content creators care about these videos been out in public? Are there many people trying to make money off these?

For example, let's say that the video I linked was an autopsy video. First of all I doubt the poor guy being displayed even had a chance to benefit from being shown (a moral issue in its own right), so the content owners are probably the doctors or coroner. Now if a doctor or coroner made this as a professional video for sale, then presumably it is for other doctors and coroners -- I seriously doubt they would care about other people viewing it for free. (This is like how lots of software is free for personal use but needs to be paid for for commercial/business use, or how lots of art has a similar license). And if the video was made for the purpose of making money off of people like us with obsession with castration, I'd flip the moral issue around a bit and say "is it really right for someone to profit off of the death/mutilation of that guy?"

Basically I'm saying that while I agree that much content is hosted by people who are not the legal content owners, I'm not sure that the original content owners would care. The main care would be for people trying to make money from people like us, and I think that is a very narrow and rare situation.

For example, I've posted many videos on A BANNED LINK WAS POSTED!A BANNED LINK WAS POSTED!A BANNED LINK WAS POSTED!A BANNED LINK WAS POSTED!A BANNED LINK WAS POSTED!A BANNED LINK WAS POSTED!A BANNED LINK WAS POSTED!A BANNED LINK WAS POSTED!.com of my genitals being tortured (both by dominatrix and self-torture). I suppose my motive is exhibitionism and taking some pleasure in shock value. I know A BANNED LINK WAS POSTED!A BANNED LINK WAS POSTED!A BANNED LINK WAS POSTED!A BANNED LINK WAS POSTED!A BANNED LINK WAS POSTED!A BANNED LINK WAS POSTED!A BANNED LINK WAS POSTED!A BANNED LINK WAS POSTED! makes money off my videos, and I expect other sites have stolen many of them. But I don't care.

Another point is that research is a legally allowable use of copyrighted material. For example if you just post the clip from Hostel showing castration without showing the whole movie, it is probably infringement. If we assume the EA has a real archival purpose, then I think compiling a list of links is a useful function of the Archive.

There may be some content owners who don't want the videos viewed for privacy reasons. However, in the age of the modern internet, once content is posted somewhere you've pretty much lost any ability to recover privacy. This is sort of like what dualballs is saying: once it is on the web it is already viewable by anyone -- we're not really protecting content owners much by not posting links.

So LoseThem, I guess I'm trying to understand how bad we should feel for content owners. I strongly suspect that a large majority wouldn't care about us viewing them for free, but it is of course difficult to prove for any particular content. I think we have the right to view excerpts of videos, particularly medical professional videos, for research interest. I think many people don't expect to make money from their videos. I think many people are happy for their videos to be viewed as widely as possible.

But again, I understand the other point of view. Just want to really think it through.

I have a few short stories online and I do search and police those stories.

I do not mind a link to MY website with a synopsis of the story...

HOWEVER,

I will not tolerate republication of MY story at another website.

That's what we are talking about here.

If the video belongs to person A, then person B cannot repost that video to another website.

That is wrong. That's the big deal. It is stealing from Person A.

I should say the links are of no interest to me. Primarily because I am afraid of seeing myself. My concerns are if stolen vids and pictures are posted on the EA can any legal harm be brought to the EA? I think the EA is important to many and I would hate for any risk of the sites viability.

Considering that the person who originally posted that video online posted it to MBM, did not intend for it to be taken and reposted, I do feel badly for them. Unfortunately there is no way to guard against the theft if the person can get the video to their computer. The video has to be transmitted to your machine and they can't prevent your saving it if you want to no matter what roadblocks they put in place.

So yes, links to STOLEN content (A link like you posted) should be forbidden. It doesn't matter if you did not steal the content yourself, but if you post a link to stolen content and you're notified that it's stolen content and you keep it up anyhow, then you're just as guilty of theft as the person who took the video and reposted it in the first place.

As for how sorry to feel, probably plenty sorry related to this type of content. They post it in one place and don't expect it to be taken and posted elsewhere. The person who originally posted that video is angry that it's out in the wild now, so I do feel badly for them. The person who stole the content likely for no other reason than to be an attention whore isn't damaged, the person who is the subject of the video is damaged for life.

See the issue now?

It's for these reasons that I post VERY LITTLE of my own castration and modifications to my own body online. I'm a very private individual and I'm not a circus animal for people to jerk off to.

While I'm here I'll post this warning to people who wish to subscribe or are subscribed to MBM - If you take the content off there and post it elsewhere I'll ban you, no refunds made. Something that is plain in the terms of service over there which for whatever reason nobody reads and seems shocked when I hold them to it.

--LT

I think we should compliment the two main characters involved in this. Losethem for being forceful without being insulting and bombastic and SplitDik for being very mature in his response.

The simplest solution is this:

LT is very knowledgeable about these things - links to videos and pictures.

If you feel the need to post a link, do so.

If it's a stolen image, LT can click on "REPORT POST" and let the Admin's know.

We will pull said link and tell you why with a post edit.

Thank you - and thank you, LT for spotting these. Tells you how many I've bothered to look at since 1997 or so.

Paolo wrote: Sat Dec 31, 2011 10:26 pm The simplest solution is this:

LT is very knowledgeable about these things - links to videos and pictures.

If you feel the need to post a link, do so.

If it's a stolen image, LT can click on "REPORT POST" and let the Admin's know.

We will pull said link and tell you why with a post edit.

Thank you - and thank you, LT for spotting these. Tells you how many I've bothered to look at since 1997 or so.

Okay, that approach is fine.

However, to make it work there are a couple things. First of all the moderators/volunteer screeners need to understand that the person posting the link has very little way to know if it has been posted before or is stolen. And if we delete all the previous links there is no way to really search or check. LT seemed to think I should know that it had been posted before and that it was stolen, but honestly I would never have posted it if I knew either of those.

Secondly, I'm not sure how anyone can really say which things actually need protecting, except for the ones where he knows the content rights holder. In the video I linked, I'm not at all convinced that whoever owns the rights wouldn care about us linking to it.

Also, along the lines of dualball's comment: In today's internet environment you effectively lose your privacy as soon as you make digital content. I don't mean that legally you should lose it, but that practically you do. As soon as you make a sex tape with your girlfriend you have to assume that it is going to end up all over the internet. As soon as you take a picture of your genitals you have to assume the same. They're even teaching this stuff in elementary school now -- you simply don't create any digital record that you wouldn't want broadcasted to the world. It's common sense. If governments, corporations, celebrities, politicians and movie studios can't protect content worth billions of dollars and secrets of national security then we shouldn't kid ourselves -- there is no expectation of privacy anymore.

Anyway, I'm content to abide by guidelines set by the community here. Just know that maybe my memory is failing me but I really did not know that the video I posted had been posted recently here or that it previously was cited as being stolen. So as long as people don't mind deleting every few posts of mine, I promise I will try (which I did!) to see if it was obviously stolen.