For decades I have always had the idea that the various mental illnesses are black and white kind of things. You either have them or you don't. However, in the last couple of years I have begun to think in terms of degrees. Sort of similar to we are all are some mix of extrovert and introvert, active and passive, dominant and submissive, etc. I recently had an interesting conversation about autism and Asperger's syndrome which led me to think also along the lines of some aspects of traits like Asperger's are what enabled the people who really advanced science and society to have those inspirations. Those people had degrees of Asperger's, but not so completely that they could not function in society. They were just different or 'colorful,' but could function and also could see things that the rest of us are blind to.

Any comments anyone?

The dramatic increase in diagnoses of autism, especially Asberger's , ADHD, and HAD, tells me not, as some people suggest, that something modern technology is introducing into the environment is causing these conditions to increase, but that they have become the diagnoses du jour. This is particularly disturbing when it comes to boys. So many are being diagnosed, medicated, or put into special schools simply for what in the past would have been recognized as being boys. While some people legitimately have these conditions to varying degrees, I'd confidently wager that if current diagnostic practice had been in place for the previous 200 years many of the people we now hail as geniuses would not have gotten the chance to be great.

I'll definitely agree that in my opinion, ADHD is frequently diagnosed inappropriately in young boys who are simply not being properly challenged and/or having their natural energy directed in productive manners. Society has jumped on the ADHD bandwagon as a crutch for their own larger failure to be responsible for raising their own children.

I mostly agree with you Arab Nights.

There is a part of Aspergers that is in a sense the opposite of adhd.

That is people who are able to focus their attention on whatever they are doing to the exclusion of nearly any distraction. That's one of the ways that "high performance" people get difficult things done. It's not just a matter of being colorful and wierd.

The medications is the scary thing. Doctors prescribe medications with these long lists of side effects, but some side effects will ruin your life and can you really live with yourself if you give your child some medication to "calm them down" and they end up with a heart, brain or nervous system problem for the rest of their life.

My son has some emotional outbursts at school and so of course he gets diagnosed with ADHD (even though he has no problem concentrating at all -- he plays piano, can program computers, do artwork for hours on end, etc.) And then the psychologist prescribed Risperdal.

Well I looked up the side effects and one is that your kid can get permanent nervous tics (called Tardive Dyskinesis)!

Here is a youtube video of a kid that ended up with this side effect (eyelid twitch): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxOUIdIEFvg

And here's a more serious one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwPZnWWx ... re=related (she took Risperdal at one point)

Can you imagine having your beautiful child end up with one of these conditions because you just wanted them to behave a bit better? And these side effects are obvious -- what about all the invisible effect on brain development, reproductive health, etc.? Kids can't even describe to you side effects -- if they are unusually drowsy or something.

It is really sick because doctors and drug companies are recommending you to take risks that most wouldn't be able to live with. At the end of the day, they'd just say "well the label said it could happen".

SplitDik (imported) wrote: Wed Apr 13, 2011 7:40 pm The medications is the scary thing. Doctors prescribe medications with these long lists of side effects, but some side effects will ruin your life and can you really live with yourself if you give your child some medication to "calm them down" and they end up with a heart, brain or nervous system problem for the rest of their life.

My son has some emotional outbursts at school and so of course he gets diagnosed with ADHD (even though he has no problem concentrating at all -- he plays piano, can program computers, do artwork for hours on end, etc.) And then the psychologist prescribed Risperdal.

Well I looked up the side effects and one is that your kid can get permanent nervous tics (called Tardive Dyskinesis)!

Here is a youtube video of a kid that ended up with this side effect (eyelid twitch): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxOUIdIEFvg

And here's a more serious one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwPZnWWx ... re=related (she took Risperdal at one point)

Can you imagine having your beautiful child end up with one of these conditions because you just wanted them to behave a bit better? And these side effects are obvious -- what about all the invisible effect on brain development, reproductive health, etc.? Kids can't even describe to you side effects -- if they are unusually drowsy or something.

It is really sick because doctors and drug companies are recommending you to take risks that most wouldn't be able to live with. At the end of the day, they'd just say "well the label said it could happen".

I would presume and hope that you told the school to fuck off and refused any risperdal? It is a powwerful antipsychotic, and is not remotely ordinarily used to treat ADHD. It is used to treat schizophrenia and bi-polar mania.

kristoff wrote: Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:03 pm I would presume and hope that you told the school to fuck off and refused any risperdal? It is a powwerful antipsychotic, and is not remotely ordinarily used to treat ADHD. It is used to treat schizophrenia and bi-polar mania.

Yep, that is my point -- I wouldn't take that kind of risk with a 10-year old kid. But I'm sure lots of parents do -- this wasn't just a school psychologist but one from a top children's hospital. So you have to have a lot of confidence to stand up to a medical authority figure, and you have to have a lot of wisdom to really assess what sort of risks you're willing to take.

My son definitely has some emotional control issues, but I'd rather a lifetime of that than to know that I had crippled him for my convenience.

By the way, it is not uncommonly prescribed for ADHD. Also for Asperger's. See forums like these:

http://www.dailystrength.org/c/Parents_ ... l-concerns

http://www.drugs.com/forum/drug-informa ... 25733.html

Note another side effect I forgot to mention -- the average 10 year old will gain 35 lbs on this drug. And it is not just an uncommon side effect, it is pretty much what happens to every kid. A normal 10 year old only weighs 80lbs, so you're basically dooming him to being 50% overweight.

The thing is that the teachers want the boys to act like girls and if they act like boys there are labeled as ADD or what ever the in thing is.

And there has been cases where the school said if you don't give him the medications he can't go to school! And to make maters more sticky the school may get the child welfare department involved.

Another item allot of the people in power do not have children.

_g

I used to feel the same way about mental illness being black and white even though everyone always told me I has something wrong with me. Fact is, after trying to kill myself back in february I was diagnosed with ptsd (resulting from me finding my father with a bullet hole in his head when I was 14 and never dealing with the trauma) and bipolar disorder (not sure if its actually considered a mental illness but at least a little closer to the topic at hand). I now take depakote, wellbutrin and geodon and will need to do so for the rest of my life in order to function normally. Only now after being on the meds for almost 2 months do I recognize the the unhealthy and downright dangerous patterns of behaviour I exhibited before. These meds a certainly not a cure all but they DO help. But combine all this with unresolved tg issues (now taking prescription estrogen injections and not self medicating) and I feel like im some how"broken" with no way to be fixed.

kyennamo (imported) wrote: Fri Apr 15, 2011 4:10 am I used to feel the same way about mental illness being black and white even though everyone always told me I has something wrong with me. Fact is, after trying to kill myself back in february I was diagnosed with ptsd (resulting from me finding my father with a bullet hole in his head when I was 14 and never dealing with the trauma) and bipolar disorder (not sure if its actually considered a mental illness but at least a little closer to the topic at hand). I now take depakote, wellbutrin and geodon and will need to do so for the rest of my life in order to function normally. Only now after being on the meds for almost 2 months do I recognize the the unhealthy and downright dangerous patterns of behaviour I exhibited before. These meds a certainly not a cure all but they DO help. But combine all this with unresolved tg issues (now taking prescription estrogen injections and not self medicating) and I feel like im some how"broken" with no way to be fixed.

I agree that meds can help, but the trick is the risk-reward. SSRIs and anti-depressants generally have now been around for a while (25 years) and most of the side effects are relatively mild and more importantly reversible. If you have an acute suicidal or self-harm issue, then the risk of these side effects is well worth it. I myself have turned my life around with the help of SSRIs (I was able to get off of them after 5 years of taking them).

But people are taking unproven, serious medications for mild chronic conditions. Just because a kid gets mad doesn't mean he should take an anti-psychotic that guarantees he'll have weight problems and chance of permanent nervous system damage, etc.

I think all medicine is fairly trustworthy for acute issues -- like I trust them to fix me up if I'm injured, and will take antibiotics when I've had a surgery, etc.

But people should be very cautions when committing to taking a lifelong medication (e.g. statins) for moderate chronic illnesses. Those are what the drug companies bank on and are therefore not trustworthy -- drug companies love when their drug gets indicated for a new condition. For example, the Risperdal that the doctor wanted my son to take is an anti-psychotic that only two years ago got approved for younger children for non-psychotic issues.

Drug companies aren't evil, they are just totally inhuman; they are companies whose sole goal is to make money. I knew a guy who sold equipment for testing new drugs, and he credibly told me that drug companies know cures for lots of things that they don't take to market because they won't see the return on their investment. For example, imagine a drug company discovers a cheap drug to cure cancer. It is actually illegal from a shareholder interest point of view for them to produce it because they will make more money with the cancer cocktails they are already selling. Not evil, but entirely mercantile and soulless. Similarly, they have cures for rare diseases which they don't take to market because they can't recover their costs of trials.

So trust a doctor to be able to set a bone, do a knee surgery, or prescribe something to block a suicidal episode. Don't trust them to manage your chronic illnesses.