Hello,

I experience sleep difficulties since I was a kid but since I started estrogens (around six months) the problems got worst. My doc says to be patient cause it's my brains activity that changes due to hormonal changes and he prescribed me sleeping pills. I have not heard anyone saying that he got insomnia due to HRT.

The problem gets even worst cause I also experience nocturia (another post). I have checked my nocturia problem to an urologist but I was fine...

I do not know what to do now . I desperate and I want my sleep pattern to be normal. I have also tried melatonin and other herbal supplements with no luck...

I thinking to stop estrogen pills and get patches if that makes any difference.

You say you're on estrogens Mantonis, but are you also castrated?

I have a long term sleep problem due to perennial rhinitis. Each time I have tried cyproterone acetate my sleep problem has become worse. The hormonal changes seem to make me sleep so lightly that I don't feel I'm getting any REM sleep. After only a week or so of this I have started to feel very low, and have given up the drug in fear of becoming very depressed. Does everyone go through this low patch in the early stages of castration, or is it peculiar to me?

I would try reducing the dose of the drug. The problem with sleeping could be of a different cause. Perhaps it could be some emotional problems dealing with wanting to change your body from male. This can cause anxiety in many people.

Riven (imported) wrote: Wed Mar 23, 2011 5:24 pm I have a long term sleep problem due to perennial rhinitis. Each time I have tried cyproterone acetate my sleep problem has become worse. The hormonal changes seem to make me sleep so lightly that I don't feel I'm getting any REM sleep. After only a week or so of this I have started to feel very low, and have given up the drug in fear of becoming very depressed. Does everyone go through this low patch in the early stages of castration, or is it peculiar to me?

Hi Riven,

You're not alone on both perennial rhinitis and depression from taking lowering T levels due to cyproterone acetate. I experienced both. But I did not find that cyproterone acetate affects my already pretty problematic sleep.

perennial rhinitis -- There are many treatments that help reduce the effect on sleep, from some over the counter drugs to wearing a breath mask at night. I am somewhere in the middle, using nose wash, cortizone nose spray, and an over-the-counter decongestant pill. But a friend who went all the way to the breath machine & mask said that the quality sleep is so good, the last time he enjoyed such deep sleep was when he was a baby. Perhaps because I am already taking all of this that I don't feel the effects on my sleep from Androcur.

depression -- That can be a very serious problem. For me, it got gradually worse, rather than better as some other people reported. At first, I enjoyed the eunuch calm. Then, I found that I cry very easily. And after several months of Androcur, I felt helpless and hopeless on the least problem. After 4 years of Androcur, I finally weaned myself off of Androcur to prevent things getting worse, just as my real life situation was getting more stressful.

However, dosage of Androcur does not seem to affect the level of depression. After the initial trial with Androcur alone, I supplemented Androcur with Tamoxifen to prevent gynecomastia. But the combination also allowed me to drastically reduce my dosages of both to very low levels.

On Androcur alone, I went as high as 200 mg/day for weeks without sufficiently reducing my libido -- my objective. While on both, I reached very low libido levels at a sustaining level of 25 mg/day of Androcur and 10 mg/day of Tamoxifen. I was on this level for over a year. It was because of the undesirable effects of depression, low energy level, anemia and weight gains that I finally had to stop Androcur.

After I stopped, my libido did not return, nor did my genital size -- which is what I was after any way. All the bad effects are gone, even my weight finally came back down.

My sleep problems did not get better or worse after I stopped.

Just sharing my experience with you as a reference.

Hello,

mantonis (imported) wrote: Thu Mar 17, 2011 2:04 am I experience sleep difficulties since I was a kid but since I started estrogens (around six months) the problems got worst. My doc says to be patient cause it's my brains activity that changes due to hormonal changes and he prescribed me sleeping pills. I have not heard anyone saying that he got insomnia due to HRT.

The problem gets even worst cause I also experience nocturia (another post). I have checked my nocturia problem to an urologist but I was fine...

I do not know what to do now . I desperate and I want my sleep pattern to be normal. I have also tried melatonin and other herbal supplements with no luck...

I thinking to stop estrogen pills and get patches if that makes any difference.

You've had sleep difficulties since you were young, but a cause was never identified?

Did you have a 'rough' puberty? Bad acne? Wet the bed as a kid?

Did your doctor check you for androgen insensitivity problems (birth defect), or prostate impactions/infections (typical with older men . . . you are 30). That could cause you to trot to the bathroom several times a night.

Did your doctor tell you the difference between the way the body absorbs the estrogen (pills-vs-patches). Method of delivery does make a difference.

Many people deal with hormonal changes differently. Your body may not be processing the new hormones properly - fighting it, causing stress, like it did during puberty; resulting in sleep disorder.

Caution; mixing OTC products with prescribed sleeping pills . . . you may not wake up.

Do what your doctor says, according to his plan. Don't add to his plan thinking because it's OTC, it must be safe.

If taking sleeping pills bothers you, try Valerin* (Valerian Root) (http://www.wonderlabs.com/itemleft.php?itemnum=6061). It relaxes your whole being, allowing deep sleep. It's an all Natural Relaxant. I use it all the time, where I used to depend upon Tylinol. It Relieves; Muscle Spasms•Tension and Stress•FibroMyalgia•Low Back Pain•PMS, Menstrual Cramps•Tight Muscles•Back Sprain and Strain•Nervousness•Leg Cramps•Pulled Muscles•Neck and Shoulder Pain

DO NOT TAKE WITH SLEEPING PILLS.

*(Wonder Labs does ship to Greece, but you'll incur tariff/custom $. You can use the product description to find something comparable in your own country.)

I'm surprised you got no good results from MELATONIN. It reduces nighttime systolic and diastolic blood pressure. Most people fall asleep real fast and have no side effects. How long did you use it? Do you have a depressive disorder? If you try it again, DON"T take it with your prescribed pills.

Common OTC sleep aid; Diphenhydramine HCI (Benadryl, Tylenol Sleep, Many Generics). Gives you a bloody nose eventually if used too much.

How's it going mantonis?

Bobbie has a point: It's difficult not to be thinking about what you're doing to your body while you chemically alter it. And thinking (even subconsciously) can disturb your sleep.

Thanks for sharing info on your rhinitis and your chemical castration hkeunuch. I'm managing my rhinitis a bit better these days. Like you I use a nasal rinse, which has helped, but I think lowering my alcohol consumption helps too, and there's definitely a stress element in there as well. ie. symptoms are worse when I'm stressed. So that has made chemical castration very difficult because it's not the kind of thing you can (or should) undertake lightly.

artisticlicense makes some very good points and sensible warnings too.

Rhinitis;

Ick! Never seem to get rid of it!

Trouble with the "stuffy-head syndrome", is if not correctly diagnosed, it can compound to the point of surgery and even be life-threatening.

Many modern folks are exposed to so many environmental elements that aggravate the sinuses, and don't realize it until they 'come down with something', and Doctors treat it like cold or flu. OTC remedies can actually make it worse (rebound congestion - sometimes considered perennial rhinitis).

Here's a good Mayo Clinic Article (http://www.bing.com/health/article/mayo ... q=rhinitis)

If your eyes, nose, and throat do not itch; it's most likely common rhinitis, from environmental exposure (work-place, home-life) or cultural elements (foods & liquids, household & cleaning products, clothing, lifestyle habits). Little things that build up over time that we don't consider important.

Mine is mostly due to swelling of the blood vessels in the frontal-lobe sinuses, just under the eyes. I can sleep on my left side fine; but roll over on my right, and I suffocate! I take a low-dose aspirin every night, but have discontinued regular aspirin use 'after dark'. Only take Tylenol if absolutely necessary (migraines and really swollen joints in my neck). See prior post for Valerian Root.

A new finding, that includes rhinitis, is inflammation (Vasomotor rhinitis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhinitis,_ ... r_rhinitis)- typically from environmental irritants and your body's attempts to constantly rid itself of them). Inflammation is the cause of a whole lot of modern-day human 'ills'.

Here's a good article (http://www.drbobspain.com/index.php/hea ... flammation). The web site also lists several foods to avoid in the battle against inflammation. I have stopped using coffee, soda and refined sugar, but I love milk, cheese and ICE CREAM! (My head gets "stopped up" every time, too!). I replace Sugar with Stevia crystals, which also, curiously enough, helped my GERD (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GERD).

Something Old is New again.

It has long been known to Naturopathy and Homeopaths that cactus, and it's fruits, reduced swelling from inflammation.

If you are in an area where prickly pear cactus grows (most common), try harvesting some pads and fruit to see for yourself. The fruit tastes like most berries, but really 'waxy' and chock-full of seeds. The pads are harvested for the well-know food dish "Nopales" (Mexican and Southwestern cuisine).

I grow some in my yard here in GA, just for eating.

Smoke or grill the pads to burn off the spines (needles)[or slice them off with a good fillet knife], slice them up like string beans; and boil once with plain water, pour out, boil again with a little butter/bacon grease, spice and salt.

A little 'slimey if you don't throw out the 1st water, but OK if you don't.

A new product on the market today is "Nopalea (http://www.best-natural-health-suppleme ... palea.html)", in case you are interested, or don't have actual resources to the 'real thing'. I have not tried Nopalea, but I read it is made from 100% natural ingredients (too long a list for me though).

The link provided is one of their re-sellers, and has any info you might need.

Hope this helps your stuffy-head sleep-deprivation.

Thank you all for the info.

I'm chemically castrated and I'm taking a very low dosage of estrogen (pills) which is 2mgrs every other day.

I was measured my hormones when I was in puberty and I was fine (normal male) but I did have bad puberty years anyway.

Valerian, like melatonin did nothing. I have also tried melatonin time release up to 12mgrs and nothing. I take "Stilnox" (like Ambien) to sleep. It only lasts around four hours so I have to take two pills every four hours. This is an overdose according to the drug reference.

I have also had a surgery months ago, in September, to correct my nose diaphragm. The doc said I had very allergic nose but I did not thought to ask him about my insomnia. I might give him a call.

I have an appointment next week on a sleep hospital. I believe they will tell me my problem is emotional since I'm taking hormones bla bla bla....

Have your doctor get you a sleep study, I had one several years ago and the end result was a C-pap machine which I use every night, I sleep about 6,5 to 7 hours a night but its good deep sleep. so ask your doctor.

River

Riverwind (imported) wrote: Fri Apr 01, 2011 6:09 pm Have your doctor get you a sleep study, I had one several years ago and the end result was a C-pap machine which I use every night, I sleep about 6,5 to 7 hours a night but its good deep sleep. so ask your doctor.

River

My boyfriend uses a c-pap machine cause he has apnea. I wear earplugs when sleeping with him cause even the tiniest noise (from the machine) disturbs my sleep. I thought that sleep apnea is different from insomnia. In sleep apnea you can fall asleep easy but your breath disturbs you sleep quality. When having insomnia you just cannot sleep. Is that correct?