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The boy who was raised a girl

Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 5:18 am
by Twinsenboy (imported)
From BBC News, 23 November 2010 :

Health Check: The boy who was raised a girl

When anyone has a baby the first question everyone asks is: "Is it a boy or a girl?"

Biologically it is sex hormones, physical appearance and the sex chromosomes - XX for a woman, XY for a man - which dictate whether someone is male or female.

But what happens if you bring up someone who was a boy as a girl?

There was a case just like this in the 1960s, a case which ended in tragedy.

Twins Bruce and Brian Reimer were born in Canada as two perfectly normal boys. But after seven months, both were having difficulty urinating.

Acting on advice, the parents, Janet and Ron, took the boys to the hospital for a circumcision.

The next morning, they received a devastating phone call - Bruce had been involved in an accident.

Doctors had used a cauterizing needle instead of a blade, and the electrical equipment had malfunctioned and the surge in current had completely burned off Bruce's penis.

"I could not comprehend what he was talking about," Janet Reimer remembered.

"I thought they were going to use a knife. I didn't know there was electricity involved."

Brian's operation was cancelled, and the Reimers took their twins home.

Ideal experiment

Months passed, and they had no idea what to do until one evening they met a man who would change their lives, and the lives of their twins, forever.

Dr John Money was a psychologist specialising in sex changes.

He believed that it wasn't so much biology that determines whether we are male or female, but how we are raised.

"We just happened to be watching TV," remembers Mrs Reimer.

"Dr Money was on there and he was very charismatic, he seemed highly intelligent and very confident of what he was saying."

Janet wrote to Dr Money, and within a few weeks she'd taken Bruce to see him in Baltimore.

For Dr Money the case provided the ideal experiment.

Here was a child he believed should be brought up as the opposite sex, who even brought his own control group with him - an identical twin.

If it worked this would provide irrefutable evidence that nurture could over-ride biology - and Dr Money genuinely believed that Bruce had a better chance of living a happy life as a woman than as a man without a penis.

Lonely girl

And so, when Bruce was 17 months old, he became Brenda. Four months later, on 3 July 1967, the first surgical step was taken - with castration.

Dr Money stressed that, if they wanted the sex change to work, the parents must never let Brenda or her twin brother know that she had been born a boy.

From now on they had a daughter, and every year they would go and visit Dr Money who was keeping track of the twins' progress in what became known as the John/Joan case. Brenda's identity was kept a secret.

"The mother stated her daughter was much neater than her brother and, in contrast with him, disliked to be dirty," Dr Money recorded at one of these yearly meetings.

Although, in contrast, he also noted: "The girl had many tomboy traits, such as abundant physical energy, a high level of activity, stubbornness, and being often the dominant one in a girl's group."

By 1975, the children were nine years old, and Dr Money published a paper detailing his observations. The experiment, he said, had been a total success.

"No-one else knows that she is the child whose case they read of in the news media at the time of the accident.

"Her behaviour is so normally that of an active little girl, and so clearly different by contrast from the boyish ways of her twin brother, that it offers nothing to stimulate one's conjectures."

Suicidal

Yet by the time Brenda reached puberty at 13, she was feeling suicidal.

"I could see that Brenda wasn't happy as a girl," Janet recalled.

"She was very rebellious. She was very masculine, and I could not persuade her to do anything feminine. Brenda had almost no friends growing up. Everybody ridiculed her, called her cavewoman.

"She was a very lonely, lonely girl."

Faced with their daughter's sadness, Brenda's parents stopped taking her to see Dr Money.

Soon after, they did the one thing Dr Money had warned them against: they told her she had been born a boy.

Within weeks Brenda had chosen to become David.

He had re-constructive surgery and eventually he even married. He couldn't have children himself, but he loved being a stepfather to his wife's three children.

Yet what David did not know was that he had still been immortalised as 'John/Jane' in medical and academic papers about gender reassignment, and that the "success" of Dr Money's theory was affecting other patients with similar gender issues.

"He had no way of knowing that his case had found its way into a wide array of medical and psychological textbooks that were now establishing the protocols for how to treat hermaphrodites and people who lose their penis," said John Colapinto, a journalist for the New York Times who uncovered David's story.

"He could hardly believe that this was out there as a successful case and that it was affecting others like him."

Depression

Now well into his thirties, David had become depressed. He'd lost his job and he was separated from his wife.

In the spring of 2002 his brother died from a drug overdose.

Two years later on 4 May 2004, when David was 38, Janet and Ron had a visit from the police. David had committed suicide.

"They asked us to sit down and they said they had some bad news, that David was dead. I just cried."

Cases like "John/Joan" - where an accident had taken place - are very rare. But there are still decisions being made about whether to bring children up as male or female if they suffer from what is called Disorders of Sex Development.

"We now have well-functioning multi-disciplinary teams around the country so that the decision will be taken by a variety of professionals," explained Polly Carmichael from Great Ormond Street Hospital.

"The parents would be much more involved in terms of the decision making process.

In her experience, these decisions have been successful in helping children to grow up to lead a happy and fulfilling life.

"One of the wonderful thing about working with children and their families is that children are amazingly resilient.

"With support, I'm constantly amazed at what children are able to take on and manage."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-11814300

Re: The boy who was raised a girl

Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 5:42 am
by Caith721 (imported)
It's a great book, I read it a few years back.

📢 Unfortunately, Dr. Money was more interested in his own achievement rather than the well-being of the patient. Today's WPATH standards are greatly improved, but still serve more to protect the interests of the doctors and therapists, rather than the sincere needs of the patients.

Re: The boy who was raised a girl

Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 9:39 am
by punkypink (imported)
oh this case. Yes that experiment rather conclusively proved that gender is innate, and not due to upbringing.

Rather sad though.

Re: The boy who was raised a girl

Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 11:21 am
by Caith721 (imported)
Tragic, actually. After several failed surgeries, Mr Reimer (http://wiki.susans.org/index.php/David_Reimer) committed suicide in 2004. :(

Re: The boy who was raised a girl

Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 12:41 pm
by Twinsenboy (imported)
When I read such stuff, I always feel like killing somebody, rather than crying, but it is very sad for the victims.

Re: The boy who was raised a girl

Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 1:16 pm
by punkypink (imported)
Caith721 (imported) wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2010 11:21 am Tragic, actually. After several failed surgeries, Mr Reimer (http://wiki.susans.org/index.php/David_Reimer) committed suicide in 2004. :(

Yes quite. I'm actually aware of his suicide.

Though having been in UK for 6 years I seem to have aquired their predilection for understatement.

Re: The boy who was raised a girl

Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 9:22 pm
by twaddler (imported)
Read a lot on him a few years ago -- very sad tale. :(

Re: The boy who was raised a girl

Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 10:24 pm
by transward (imported)
I remember reading MoneyÂ’s writings before the revelations about the failure of the therapy. I thought at the time that it was bad science to consider a theory proven with a single datum, the Reiner case, and dangerous to base a protocol on just one case. So I was not particularly surprised when As Nature Made Him: The Boy Who Was Raised As a Girl, came out.

But for more than a decade the Money protocol of gender surgery for damaged or intersex genitals was widely accepted and according to several sources there were quite a number of such surgeries.

So, as one datum cannot prove a theory, neither can a single one disprove it. In the course of running support groups for trans folk, I have known people who did not suffer involuntary sex changes who grow up unhappy with their gender and later committed suicide. Since As Nature Made Him: The Boy Who Was Raised As a Girl came out, I have been waiting for more people to come forward to agree or cantradict him. Any time something like this happens there is a “me too” response; witness the number of mistresses that came out of the woodwork regarding Tiger Woods, or the boys accusing Bishop Eddie Long in Atlanta. But since Reimer, I have heard of no one else stepping forward to say that they had the same story, or to contradict him.

So I would like to know if the others who have such surgery have been surveyed. Are they as unhappy with their gender as David Reimer was, or have they adjusted and accepted their acquired gender? It seems that both before and after it would have been better if there was more research, and less reliance on a single case

Transward

Re: The boy who was raised a girl

Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 6:10 am
by punkypink (imported)
transward (imported) wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2010 10:24 pm I remember reading MoneyÂ’s writings before the revelations about the failure of the therapy. I thought at the time that it was bad science to consider a theory proven with a single datum, the Reiner case, and dangerous to base a protocol on just one case. So I was not particularly surprised when As Nature Made Him: The Boy Who Was Raised As a Girl, came out.

But for more than a decade the Money protocol of gender surgery for damaged or intersex genitals was widely accepted and according to several sources there were quite a number of such surgeries.

So, as one datum cannot prove a theory, neither can a single one disprove it. In the course of running support groups for trans folk, I have known people who did not suffer involuntary sex changes who grow up unhappy with their gender and later committed suicide. Since As Nature Made Him: The Boy Who Was Raised As a Girl came out, I have been waiting for more people to come forward to agree or cantradict him. Any time something like this happens there is a “me too” response; witness the number of mistresses that came out of the woodwork regarding Tiger Woods, or the boys accusing Bishop Eddie Long in Atlanta. But since Reimer, I have heard of no one else stepping forward to say that they had the same story, or to contradict him.

So I would like to know if the others who have such surgery have been surveyed. Are they as unhappy with their gender as David Reimer was, or have they adjusted and accepted their acquired gender? It seems that both before and after it would have been better if there was more research, and less reliance on a single case

Transward

It could also be that these people have transitioned back, but feel no need to own up to it. I mean, most typical trans folk already try their best to avoid being known to be trans, I can imagine people who were forced into becoming trans in that manner would want negative publicity even less.

Besides, the overwhelming evidence is that if gender is due to nuture, why do so many trans folk, despite decades of social conditioning, ultimately come out and wish to live as who they really are inside? It makes no sense, sorry. The one solitary case of Bruce is the nail in the coffin of a theory that already has a lot of logical evidence substantiating it. We do not need others who've had the same experience as him to prove it any more conclusively, because the main example that gender is largely nature and not nuture, is the amount of trans folk in their later years who still feel a need to transition, or at the very least, are unable to shake off what instinct has told them, and sincerely believe what society has tried to condition them to think. Even a lot of "in the closet" trans folk know deep down they're trans, and that they take a lot of effort in PRETENDING they believe they're who society says they are.

So yes, Bruce's case, solitary as it may be, pretty conclusively disproves that gender is nuture, when viewed in light of the evidence provided by the very existance of trans people.

Re: The boy who was raised a girl

Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 7:18 am
by Prickson (imported)
My deep wonder is how Bruce, despite been castrated, got married. If he did it for doing sake, it's understandable. But if he truly had feelings for the girl---then that's very questionable. I would then ask: where does emotion and attraction spring from in a man if not from the testosterone produced by the testicles? Or would somebody say love actually comes from THE HEART(Literally) and not from THE BRAIN?