To make a long story short I was castrated about 15 years ago, and I love it. ( I am on the more feminine side -- shave legs and chest, have long nails, hair, wear panties, etc., and I don't care at all about having a male orgasm or having sex, but an occasional non-penile related orgasm is nice.) However, I have had a TITANIC struggle with testosterone supplements ever since -- can't live with 'em can't live without 'em. Every few weeks I'm trying to get off of 'em. My goal is not to take any, yet the most time I can achieve off of them are about 8 weeks. It goes great for a while, and I love not having a sex drive, and the body changes (except for weight gain, waist expansion) are great. But after about 5-6 weeks, it gets hard to sleep, think (not very mentally sharp), no strength, irritated, anxious, paranoid, depressed, and very tired. So how can I get the benefits of not being on T, such as bodily changes, without losing my mind. Its been either all or none -- I take compounded T which I vary between 0 and about 80 or 100 mg / day (used to take Androgel 50 mg/ day -- 5 g packet). At 80-100mg / day after about 3 weeks seems to build up, feels like the flu, and I have to quit for a while. I've also tried the cycling protocols (vary the amount every day) but that doesn't work either. I'm currently experimenting with 10-20 mg / day to see if I can hack that, but its tough going so far. I have experimented in past with Red Clover and Flax, and other phytoestrogens but in general these make the experience much worse than better (you get a pretty instant depression with limited body changes after a while). You can imagine after 15 years, and about 50% of time times of on or off testerone you want to be able to reach some kind of new place where you aren't constantly switching and can be happy. So my questions are:

a) How/if you can get off of T for good? How long does it take? Do you get a break after 2 months, 6 months, 4 years, etc., where it gets better? (I want to get the bodily changes and keep my mind.)

b) Are eunuchs on this board primarily taking minimal does of T like 10-20 mg/ day?

I read the long PHIL postings here and and seemed to me he was really struggling with depression and lack of strength and lack of energy after 4 years, so I don't want to go there. I want to be able to reach some of kind happy stability point somehow.

I use androgel at 1 pump a day and it seems to work for me. Thats about 1/5 the recommended dose. I am not trying to feminize myself but I find I am not bothered by erections or such and can still feel pretty good. Not as much energy but after time I got used to pacing myself. In the summer I sometime go up to 2 pumps or 2.5 grams so I have more energy. Its taken me years of experimenting to find what works for me.

Hey there dgeunuch,

You're not the only one to wonder about this, and we were done at about the same age. The most I could stand without T was 6 mo, and that was with my adrenals filling in the gap for about three of those months. The lack of energy and the loss of muscle tone were what got to me, and this coincided with the winter which in these parts can get pretty bad.

Currently I'm doing well on a moderately high dose of injectable depo-testosterone. It's like there are two different versions of me, both of whom I like certain aspects of. On T I'm very energetic and future-oriented, to the point of where I don't live in the now and I'm very distractable. Off of it I'm very mellow, relaxed, happy, and much more focused on the present. If there were a slightly more energetic and physically healthy version of eunuch-me, that would be the best. The worst is the way I am with fluctuating low-normal testosterone like for those three months and during the initial phases of HRT.

I'm considering trying something more exotic in the hormone market, but I'd have to be VERY careful about sourcing, dosage, legal issues, and that whole ball of wax. For now I'm just sticking with regular T since that's something doctors can measure and control.

I've had some troubles sleeping using 10-20mg testosterone. And I think being able to sleep is key to your mental health. I've noted I could sleep on 40mg, so will be trying 30-40mg in near future, taken around dinner time, to see if I can sustain on this. Its all about what level you can reach and sustain over a long-term.

I am surprised at the lack of posts on this topic, as everyone on this board must be struggling with these same issues. Much thanks to those who have already posted.

Have you tried low dose estrogen with a low dose of T? IF you like the body changes that seems like a logical way to go. I would be interested to see if doing intense bursts of weight bearing cardio would help those with lower T . I say this because T helps support the amount of mitochondria in the cells that help give us energy and the intense weight bearing cardio has shown to be effective at increasing the amount of mitochhondria.

By intense bursts, I mean doing exercise at a 100% output for a minute or so at a time with rest periods of a few minutes and do this cycle 4 or 5 times daily.

dgeunuch (imported) wrote: Fri Apr 02, 2010 10:48 am I've had some troubles sleeping using 10-20mg testosterone. And I think being able to sleep is key to your mental health. I've noted I could sleep on 40mg, so will be trying 30-40mg in near future, taken around dinner time, to see if I can sustain on this. Its all about what level you can reach and sustain over a long-term.

I am surprised at the lack of posts on this topic, as everyone on this board must be struggling with these same issues. Much thanks to those who have already posted.

If you are under a Physician's care, consider asking about Pregnenolone therapy during your 'off-time' from "T".

I use it. I do not use "T" of any kind, and never have.

I could not afford testosterone supplements, and my HMO would not pay for it (then).

I do not get super ‘Horny’, using Pregnenolone, but I can respond to stimulus, and I have a mild desire for intimacy. I do not get erections worth mentioning.

I was dead to everything including day-to-day living before I started taking the stuff. I have suggested it to others on/from this site, but I don’t know what their results were/are.

Everyone is different, and you may need to experiment, starting with low doses first. But, it looks like you experiment with “T”, so I don’t see how it could hurt you any worse experimenting with Pregnenolone.

It's an 'over-the-counter' product, but you'll most likely have to order it from somewhere.

Pregnenolone converts into DHEA, which in turn converts into testosterone and on to DHT. Pregnenolone can also be converted into progesterone.

All steroid hormones in the body (estrogen, progesterone, testosterone, DHEA, aldosterone, cortisol, etc.) are made from Pregnenolone. Pregnenolone is a natural hormone that cannot be patented. It’s found in children, but decreases with age. The body makes it from cholesterol, so cholesterol-limiting diets minimize Pregnenolone.

Possible Pregnenolone side effects are;

Overstimulation and insomnia -- low doses could be helpful for sleep when taken in the morning. Irritability, anger or anxiety -- low doses could actually ease a person into a relaxed feeling, while higher amounts may lead to irritability.

Acne can occur due to the probable conversion of this hormone into androgens, especially in young males who have functioning testicles.

Headaches are possible with high dosages.

Possible scalp hair loss if used daily for prolonged periods in large doses (bodybuilders, and young males with functioning testicles).

Irregularities of heart rhythm, Heart Palpitations, even on as low a dose as 10 mg. This can be serious in the elderly or those with heart rhythm disturbances.

You can get hot flashes coming off Pregnenolone. I do, usually from a 2-week cycle. But, if you’re taking “T”, you already know what that’s like.

If your Physician doesn't know about Pregnenolone, you might need another physician. But there are several places you can go to on the web for homework. Any common search engine will produce a ton of results. Here are a few;

http://www.raysahelian.com/pregnenolone.html

http://www.therealessentials.com/Master.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pregnenolone

http://www.wonderlabs.com/ I order mine from these folks. Never been dissatisfied. They’re super fast shippers, too.

http://www.wonderlabs.com/itemleft.php?itemnum=0901 (Product Page; $5.99 for 120 caps +S/H)

It lasts for months because you only take it for a few days, or for a week-or-two. Your body will let you know when you need more.

I take it for a few days, 10 mg in the morning with coffee; lay off a week or more. I have gone 3 months off, then 2 weeks on. It takes a day or two, and up to a few days to notice the effects. I feel like I did when I was young, during puberty, most of the time. Kind-of ‘like sex’, but can live without it. No irritating libido-bossing little-brain.

Hope this helps you.

I would love to take Estrogen, I used to do so when I younger (in a different life) for about 5 years. But my physician won't have anything to do with it, she thinks its wrong to treat a "man" (I call myself the "hybrid") with anything but T. Now if I completely appeared to be a woman after a few months, might affect my employment, not sure. But for me personally, I would love it.

Regarding the other postings drug, I haven't heard of it but will look into it now.

Its funny because I took T for 10 years, but now seems to be rejecting, although probably no science to support that. Maybe its just psychosomatic, I don't know, but seems to be almost poison to me now. It must be kinda like getting off of some powerful drug. Since I've been at 0 "T" about about 50 times now (never more than about 8-9 weeks), I guess I should know I can not survive at 0 T. Maybe estrogen; maybe lower dosage of T; maybe something else, but I really need to find something as this driving me crazy.

Maybe a very low dose of E. I think a member here (Sag) takes the lowest dose of Premarin and claims to feel great without feminization. Being older, estrogen doesn't have as dramatic of an effect so you may want to check it out at lower dosages with a touch of T.

Thanks, now I have to talk my doctor into the idea of low E, any suggestions.

A doctors care is always preferable but you always have the option of www.inhousepharmacy.com . If you can get a prescription, it would be a lot cheaper though at Wal-Mart.

WOMEN'S HEALTH $4 30-DAY $10 90-DAY

DRUG NAME DOSAGE QUANTITY QUANTITY

ESTRADIOL 0.5MG TAB 30 90

ESTRADIOL 1MG TAB 30 90

ESTRADIOL 2MG TAB 30 90

ESTROPIPATE 0.75MG TAB 30 90

ESTROPIPATE 1.5MG TAB 30 90