Ordering hormones in germany and phytoestrogens

[butcherbaby (imported)]

Hi I'm not yet sure what chemical castration and feminization will do to me so I thought that I will start on a very low dose of estrogen to see if I like it or not.

I'm in my early twenties and not very masculine little beard growth etc.

Do you think this is a good idea or would it be smarter to start out on an average dose of estrogens and anti-androgens so that the effects appear faster and I have to swallow lesser pills to achieve my goals?

Or is it possible to feminize just with estrogen so that the libido and potence is not effected as hard as with anti-andorgens?

In the sticky-thread there is mentioned that to feminize one have to take 2-8mg Estrofem daily but I don't if this intends to add a testosterne-blocker also?

To Feminize:

2-8mg of Estrofem sublingualy as tolerated by your liver

Oral estrogens can cause significantly more hepatic and cardiac impairment than injected, and is only recommended if shots can not be tolerated weekly.

Since inhouse-pharmacy is not shipping to germany I would like to ask if you have any suggestions where to buy hormones over the net in germany.

I have already read that phytoestrogens are not very potent but could they be an option in my situation? (slight/slow feminization for starters)

In the forum of myevanesce are numerous posts that indicate that these herbal products work almost like real hormones. Do you think that these are fake?

http://www.myevanesce.com/forum/board_show.pl?bid=1

[evai1234 (imported)]

In the forum of myevanesce are numerous posts that indicate that these herbal products work almost like real hormones.

Herbal products can mimic action of estriol at best, and estriol is about 1000 times weaker than estradiol.

[mantonis (imported)]

I've tried evanesce for about a year without any results. Real hormones are far more potent that herbals (and cheaper). I did see results with anti-androgens within two weeks. If you want to feminizize you need to take anti-androgens along with estrogens. If you take only estrogen then your body will be all the time in a battle. Testosterone will try to fight estrogens and the opposite. If you just want to stop you masculine progress just take anti-androgens. You will get some feminization but not as much as taking estrogens.

I do take anti-androgens for about three months and I have seen results as I said in about two weeks. Libido has eliminated but not disappeared.

Search google for ordering drugs on line. Although on-line anti-androgens are much more expensive than local drug stores at least here in Greece.

Please please please do not self administrate. Find a doctor! Hormones ARE dangerous!

[butcherbaby (imported)]

The problem is that in germany I think it's almost impossible to take hormones for a trial run, slight feminization, libido reduction etc.

When I go to a doctor he will most likely send me to a psychiatrist who woul eventually discover a gender disorder illness (if not it's unlikely that there would be any hormones prescribed to me) and then I have to go fulltime as a female at least one year in public before there would hrt prescribed to me.

Officially there's just the whole package with full transistion - and that'S not what I want (at least at the moment).

Maybe there are doctor's who prescribe hormones without this whole fuss but it's unlikely that I will find one in my area.

So the only option would be self-medication with supervision but for this I have to get my hands on the meds first. And I haven'T found a legitimante online pharmacy who would send estrogens and blockers to germany.

As for the Evanesce-thing I'm sceptical too. There is just too much positive feedback on this site that I could believe this. Every thread there ist like "oh I took this stuff for three weeks and now I could fill out a b-cub-bra". But on the net I couldn'T find any euphoric experiences like this about evanesce.

[_g (imported)]

The problem is that in germany I think it's almost impossible to take hormones for a trial run, slight feminization, libido reduction etc.

When I go to a doctor he will most likely send me to a psychiatrist who woul eventually discover a gender disorder illness (if not it's unlikely that there would be any hormones prescribed to me) and then I have to go fulltime as a female at least one year in public before there would hrt prescribed to me.

Officially there's just the whole package with full transistion - and that'S not what I want (at least at the moment).

Maybe there are doctor's who prescribe hormones without this whole fuss but it's unlikely that I will find one in my area.

So the only option would be self-medication with supervision but for this I have to get my hands on the meds first. And I haven'T found a legitimante online pharmacy who would send estrogens and blockers to germany.

As for the Evanesce-thing I'm sceptical too. There is just too much positive feedback on this site that I could believe this. Every thread there ist like "oh I took this stuff for three weeks and now I could fill out a b-cub-bra". But on the net I couldn'T find any euphoric experiences like this about evanesce.

Do you have a friend out side of germany which you could have the stuff mailed to? Then just go see your friend to pickup the packages?

_g

[mantonis (imported)]

Be careful with evanesce. It's impossible to get such fast results in two-three weeks! I believe that people there are lying (and expensive)! You can't get B' cup breasts in less than a month even with lethal doses of drug hormones!!!!! Nobody shows it's avatar there, you wont find any photos of anyone even if you request it (I did).

You can obtain hormones from pharmacy-network.com, there is a category there about hormones, you can try spyronolactone and estrogens but be careful! Check your hormones, kidneys and liver via blood tests!

You can find endocrinologists in your area at susans.org forum. Register and post a question about known endocrinologists in Germany. You will get an answer probably via private message.

Come on! you can find one, I live in Greece, which we are FAR behind on these issues, and I was able to find a doctor. Just you need to search.

[mrt (imported)]

Be safe and talk to a doctor. I think you will find them far more supportive then you think. If you get one thats not get a different doctor. I don't think anyplace puts you on some sort of hot rod to transition. If you want to go slow or even stop at HRT I think this is allowed everywhere. Or am I wrong???

Do it yourself HRT can be a very bad idea. What if the "hormones" you get are junk? What if they harm you? Even if you got real hormones and antiandrogens how do you adjust the dose?

Be SAFE! Talk to a doctor and get a GID eval.

[butcherbaby (imported)]

Thank you for your caring and informative responses!

I'm aware of the risks and dangers of hrt and am pretty good informed about it. If there would be a chance to do it under supervision I would take this opportunity but I don't think that a doctor would prescribe hormones to me without diagnosis that I'm a transgendered person (which I don't think I am).

In germany there are rules/shedules for everything - can be very annoying sometimes

Unfortunately also the customs are very strict as you can see that even inhouse or the online-pharmacy mantonis mentioned would ship to germany prescrption-free.

I'll try to find some information about an endocrinologist in my are over susans.org although I doubt that there is one who is easily reachable for me.

If that's not possible the only alternative would be that I order some stuff online (but where) and then go to a doctor who monitors my blood.

Like I said when I would go to a doctor describing my 'problem' he would most likely send me to a psychiatrist and as my insurance goes over my parents they would like to know what I'm doing there etc. -> everything would get very complicated :-\

So all I'm planning to to is to slightly and slowly feminize my body and go further if I like it. I'm carrying this 'obsession' since my teenage-years and I think that I'm just not fitting in these classical gender roles and am trying to adjust a little bit.

btw.: I know that changes induced through hrt will most likely be reversible when hormones are stopped under six months (well nipple and areola growth isn'T reversible but I think that I could live with that).

But what's with potency/libido? Is it likely that everything will return to normal after estrogen and testosterone-blockers are stopped before six months? Has this atrophy-issue to be expected before or after six months on hrt?

[_g (imported)]

If you take testosterone or anti-testosterone (depends on how drug blocks the testosterone) the end result is that the testicles shut down and start to atrophy. Taking estrogen will excel the process of testicle atrophy but your milage may very. I would say that you will have to track your testicle atrophy and not let them get too small. Personally I would say that 2 to 3 months your testicles most likely fully recover, and the longer you take the drugs the less likely your will recover fully if at all. I believe that after the testicles atrophy past the size that they were before puberty full recovery is not possible.

[butcherbaby (imported)]

Thank you! - again I must say because I've just discovered that you answered me almost the same questions a few months before. Uuh shame on me

In the meantime I have experimented further with some menopause-supplements I've got my hands on.

They contain estradiol and gestagen but the thing that scares me off everytime I take them is that only after a few pills my ejaculate changes in consistence and amount. (that's the only effect I notice but I never took them longer then a few days)

As far as i'm informed about this issue everyone seems to experience this symptoms mostly after some weeks on estrogen and blocker.

So my questions are: Is this some kind of ymmv-thing or normal?

In all the articles I read (permanent) infertility is mentioned as one of the effects that should be expected after many (6? magic number?) months on full hrt.