You should have a paragraph break each time a different person speaks. If you don't do this, your story will be deleted.

Don't write just a few paragraphs expecting to have the partial story posted. If it's a short story, finish it before posting it. If it's a long story, give us at least a chapter at a time.

Speaking only for myself, I don't read any of these multi-part stories. I don't want to read a book. Now I don't mind sequels where each story stands on it's own, but I really don't care much for these multi-part stories where one has to wait to find out what happens. Which is kind of a bummer since lately that is mostly what has been posted.

Elizabeth

Slammr,

I suppose that I'm guilty too of sometimes making more than one person speak in the same paragraph. Believe me, I didn't have the faintest idea that there was something wrong with this! I'm aware that it's bad practice to write a story in which the reader will have trouble figuring out who said what, but does separation into paragraphs really help with this? I doubt it. Instead, I try to make clear who's speaking, either by directly writing it, or by some address within the spoken text.

On the other hand, English being the language I speak least of all, I could use some clear, good instructions about punctuation, paragraph separation, and so on, in English! I'm basically what I have learned relative to other languages, and surely some of that doesn't apply in English.

So, is it standard practice, or a rule, to never let two characters speak within the same paragraph, in English? Or is it a local EA rule? If so, it would be good to publish some clear list of rules and recommendations!

Il Musico.

Slammr,

Il Musico (imported) wrote: Thu Oct 29, 2009 8:24 am On the other hand, English being the language I speak least of all, I could use some clear, good instructions about punctuation, paragraph separation, and so on, in English! I'm basically what I have learned relative to other languages, and surely some of that doesn't apply in English.

You certainly do better than many of those to whom English is a native language

Il Musico (imported) wrote: Thu Oct 29, 2009 8:24 am So, is it standard practice, or a rule, to never let two characters speak within the same paragraph, in English? Or is it a local EA rule? If so, it would be good to publish some clear list of rules and recommendations!

Il Musico.

In dialog, each speech, even if only a single word, is usually a paragraph in itself. Although the rules of grammar can occasionally be violated to achieve an effect, the common practice is to give each speech a paragraph of its own. This is a rule of English grammar. Site rules don't differ from the rules of English grammar.

I reread your story, and you did violate this rule occasionally, but you don't have a lot of dialog, and it didn't greatly impact the story, and most of the time you did start a new paragraph with each new speech. You're not going to have a story rejected for one or two violations of this rule. It becomes a problem when the speaker continually changes all in one paragraph.

A new paragraph alerts the reader that a change has taken place. Sometimes that alone is enough to indicate the new speaker.For example:

"Why did you rat on me?" asked Ryan.

"I didn't rat on you," said Sam.

"The Hell you didn't."

"The Hell I did."

"If you didn't, who did?" said Ryan.

Here's one of your paragraphs that I find a little confusing the way it's written:

Very early next morning, Martin got up to help Old Bill milk the cows. Tommy was sleeping soundly, but not for long, because mom would soon enough throw him out of bed and put him on his way to school! Martin had grown up trusting Old Bill more than even his dad, and so he felt he could talk to the old man freely, without the boundaries that usually limit father-son talks. While Old Bill was on his third cow, and Martin had started his second, he found the courage to start, and time was pressing: They had only three more cows to go! “Bill..?” “Yes, boy?” Martin’s heart was pounding hard. “Do you know about those Italian singers that have high voices even when they grow up?

Here's how I would write it:

Very early the next morning Martin got up to help old Bill milk the cows. Tommy was sleeping soundly, but not for long. Mom would soon have him out of bed and on his way to school.

Martin had grown up trusting old Bill, more even than he trusted his dad. He could talk freely to Bill without the boundaries that usually limited talks with his dad.

Bill was on his third cow, and Martin was on his second, when Martin found the courage to speak. He was running out of time; they only had three more cows to milk.

"Bill..."

"Yes, Boy," said Bill.

His heart pounding, Martin said, "Do you know about those Italian singers that have high voices, even when they grow up?"

You can possibly get by with fewer paragraphs than than I have, but there should have been a new paragraph each time a different person spoke. If the first three paragraphs were combined, you wouldn't be necessarily violating any rule of grammar. Such decisions are somewhat subjective. I started new paragraphs, because there seemed to be a new thought or shift in emphasis. Whenever there is, I like to start a new paragraph.

The last three paragraphs are necessary according to the rules of English grammar.

Here are a few more tips. If you use a ? you don't need , he/she asked.

The question mark signifies that without the speech tag.

The same goes for the exclamation mark ! .

For internal thoughts the current trend is to italicize the text e.g. Jim found the door hidden behind the bed. Well I'll be damed!

Rather than Jim found the door hidden behind the bed. "Well I'll be damed!", Jim thought.

Also, readers tend to ignore dialogue tags unless they express an emotion not necessarily conveyed in the dialogue text itself. Unless you feel it absolutely necessary stick with said.

There are a few "new rules" in vogue just now. One you hear bleated like a mantra is "Show. Don't tell." Well boys and girls read any of Daniel Silva's New York Times bestsellers and you'll see he not only fractures that rule he obliterates it. Silva writes in the vein of Charles Dickens (without the quirky 19 century turn of phrases) in that he takes great pains to set the scene. Silva's books are flawless. Rare in this day and age. Sadly my own books have typos in them despite many $$$ spent on editors. Still the responsibility rests with me.

If any one is interested, I have several articles on writing fiction. Among them is. How to Write a Sex Scene, Five Fiction Mistakes That Spell Rejection. The Why's How's, and Where's of Research The last was what led me to this group!

PM me and I'll send them via email.

M

Slammr,

I take the points, and from now on I will try to be a good boy and obey the newly learned rule! http://www.eunuch.org/vbulletin/images/ ... ankyou.gif

Not knowing that rule, I thought that the paragraph you cite was clear enough, simply because of what is being said! When there are just two people in the scene, and one addresses the other by his name, obviously the one speaking is not the one who responds to that name! And when the reply is "yes, boy", and the two people are one boy and one man, the one speaking must be the man! Only the question that follows might make someone doubt who is speaking, but the doubt should be quite small, given the sequence of addressing that just happened, and the contents of the question. So I didn't think this would be confusing.

Anyway, next time I will follow that rule. Carriage return characters aren't expensive, after all, nor is the "electronic paper" ! http://www.eunuch.org/vbulletin/images/smilies/E9.gif

And your re-writing indeed contains some better wording than mine. I can notice that when I read it, but I cannot come up with optimal formulations myself, when I write! I need more practice in English for that.

I have been considering writing my stories in German instead of English. My fluency in that language is a lot better, and I see that there are quite a few people here who can read German. But of course there are more who cannot! So I keep trying to do my best in English, even if it's far from perfect!

The other languages I could write in, other than German and English, would probably not find many readers here!

Il Musico.

Hmm, seems that the smilies in my reply don't work! At least on my machine, I see the links to them, and not the smilies!

I haven't read your work but from your postings I'd say you have little to concern yourself with. You do just fine in English.

M

Il Musico (imported) wrote: Fri Oct 30, 2009 11:03 am Hmm, seems that the smilies in my reply don't work! At least on my machine, I see the links to them, and not the smilies!

Hello Il Musico

If you want to write in the german language, i will be very happy.

It is very difficult for me to read the english one.

Perhaps you can write in both language?

Greetings from Klaus-Peter 2

A reminder:

Slammr now has the same authority that I do on story issues.

He has access to the tank, and all the amenities therein.

He can approve, delete, edit, and re-tag.

And his standards are much more stringent than mine.

He answers only to me and the Nun, so I won't have complaints.

If this is a problem, by all means, go post your story to Nifty or asstr.org or some such site.

Spank you very much.