Since the testes do produce estrogen as well as testosterone, I'm curious as to whether anybody has investigated whether there could be a connection between the level of estrogen produced by the male gonads, and things like ambivalence about gender identity, and the desire for orchiectomy. A high level of estrogen produced by the testes (or elsewhere in the body) could explain a number of things, both regarding uncastrated individuals and those who have had orchiectomies.

This suggests the odd possibility, that somebody might not be able to feel truly male unless his testes were removed, if the organs produced too much estrogen. At least one member seems, judging by his posts, not to have developed a strong male identity until he had an orchiectomy.

The problem that arises when testes which could actually be streak glands, produce too much estrogen intermittently is that you'll end up with hot flashes. By removing them the hot flashes cease. But don't even bother trying to explain this to a medical professional or a psychiatrist.

I don't know of any studies specifically on estrogen produced by the testes, but they have been looking for a relation between transsexuality and hormone levels for a long time, and the simple answer is they haven't found any. Short of castration trans women have no higher estrogen levels than normal males nor lower testosterone. This doesn't apply to genetic intersexed people of course, but other than that they simply can't correlate TSism and hormone levels. It's made it difficult for a lot of doctors because they have no real test for transsexuality, and are asked to approve life changing surgery. Until recent and controversial studies of transsexual brains at autopsy no physical differences between TSs and normal males could be found.

Transward

I had never heard of the testes producing estrogen. If this is fact should HRT include a small amount of estrogen also?

Could this be the reason us HRT eunuchs don't think HRT is the same as natural production?

See this is why I joined here....I learn stuff!!!

Males do have some estrogen but I always thought it was formed from a conversion from testosterone rather than being directly "manufactured" as estrogen.

clysmaniac (imported) wrote: Tue Jun 23, 2009 5:28 am Males do have some estrogen but I always thought it was formed from a conversion from testosterone rather than being directly "manufactured" as estrogen.

You are correct Clysmaniac, testosterone is converted to estrogen in the male body. This why HRT in men is so tricky, to get the horny feeling and erection ability the way it was before castration, many men need very high levels of T...levels much of the medical community is "uncomfortable" with. Just watch the levels, that do get converted, too much T and you get breast tissue, not enough and there's no estrogen conversion...very fine line, but it is doable.

nonuts (imported) wrote: Tue Jun 23, 2009 6:03 am You are correct Clysmaniac, testosterone is converted to estrogen in the male body. This why HRT in men is so tricky, to get the horny feeling and erection ability the way it was before castration, many men need very high levels of T...levels much of the medical community is "uncomfortable" with. Just watch the levels, that do get converted, too much T and you get breast tissue, not enough and there's no estrogen conversion...very fine line, but it is doable.

Also, mind the hemoglobin levels with rising levels of HRT androgens. Estrogen conversion isnt the only concern. I've developed polycythemia as a result of long-term androgen use (apparently more common than I would think). I've developed neuropathies in my feet as a result. Treatment: Bleed a pint every 2 months, or reduce the androgens by about half. One more thing for the balancing act.

It was mentioned that estrogen is produced by conversion from testosterone in the body. I found some references which indicate that estrogen is produced directly in the testes. In this article, a level of 20% of estrogen produced in the testes is specified. No idea if it is correct.

http://content.karger.com/ProdukteDB/pr ... 116119.pdf

You would think that one would counteract or fight the other. It's like matter and anti-matter. This is yet another subject that I never thought I'd have any interest in, but things change, now the question is do I need a small amount of estrogen mixed in with my HRT? I'd rather have that than keep my T levels in an elevated state. Especially if it made me feel like I used to.

You probably have enough estrogen from bio-identical cream. For those on injection, I can almost guarantee you have enough. But it's a good question. Did you know that estrogen actually increases a man's sensitivity to testosterone? Strange, I know.