Someone on the boards here keeps pressing me to start a forum on the topic of Religion and Philosophy. My suspicion is that the topic would fit nicely in the Deep, Dark Cellar. What do you think?

As an adjunct to that thought, someone tonight, in a bar conversation, suggested that "Indolence is the German measles of Protestantism." Think you so, or not? Why?

kristoff wrote: Sun May 31, 2009 8:41 pm Someone on the boards here keeps pressing me to start a forum on the topic of Religion and Philosophy. My suspicion is that the topic would fit nicely in the Deep, Dark Cellar. What do you think?

As an adjunct to that thought, someone tonight, in a bar conversation, suggested that "Indolence is the German measles of Protestantism." Think you so, or not? Why?

Oh, okay, I will stop begging, <sniff> <sniff> !

Now if I understand, "Indolence" then an okay rephrasing would be,

Sloth or Laziness is the German measles (Rubella) of Protestantism

Huh?

Could I get a picture, buy a vowel, or hint ?

Moi

Who Can Hear The Sound Of One Hand Clapping

I learned how to do it. Amusing at parties.

Max Weber, in the classic "Protestant Ethic and the Spirit of Capitalism," argued, in effect, that the Protestant's uncertainty about his own Salvation drove him in pursuit of worldly success, so that this manifestation of Grace would reassure him. Since Calvinists believed in Predestination and the existence of an Elect, good works alone could not guarantee Salvation, so one's only recourse was to seek signs of God's favor on earth. So said Weber in his enormously influential book.

An easy rebuttal might be that Weber wrote during the zenith of the British Empire, to be followed by the American, so it was tempting for him to generalize from the particulars of his moment in history. At other times, Catholic and non-Christian societies have prevailed. Weber could assume the Protestant ascendancy was permanent, an assumption we can no longer make with such confidence. Also, Weber assumed that a nation's religious beliefs defined its culture, another assumption we might question in this less pious time.

Perhaps the Anglo-American culture has other characteristics leading to prosperity. Modern scholars have begun to assess what contributes to the wealth of nations, and the factors go far beyond religion. Provocative analysis can be found in books such as Jared Diamond's "Guns, Germs, and Steel," Gregory Clark's "A Farewell to Alms: A Brief Economic History of the World," and David Landes's "The Wealth and Poverty of Nations: Why Some Are So Rich and Some So Poor."

As an atheist who's witnessed innumerable Catholics, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, and Muslims achieve brilliant success, I can only say of Weber's thesis that it was entertaining self-congratulation in its day. The great discovery of modern capitalism is that a nation can achieve prosperity *systematically* through the application of the best economic and legal models. There's nothing in any of the world's religions to halt progress.

It doesn't seem like enough threads are started about religion to start a new section. The ones that do knock around religion, seem take a unholy off topic turn in that direction.

As far as I am concerned both Religion and Politics should be individual sub-sections of The Deep Dark Cellar or be their own individual categories; though religion so invades politics today and throughout history it is hard to keep them separate.

True philosophy would be intellectual. But there are few true philosphers at any time in human history. Most are faux philosphers who should be sent to the cellar.

I would suggest leaving it as it is.One only has to look at the far christian right takeover of the Republican Party to see how well they conjoin each other.Many of us have a sour feeling about relegion and thinking and talking about it gives some relief.

As for myself I consider myself a diest ( one who believes there never was a god)i am also a recovering Catholic and by choice a recovering alcohalic.That is a lot for one plate and I will watch this thread

augman7518 good luck

I am of the firm opinion that religion and politics should be placed in the deep, dark hole way beneath the boards. Both subjects diminish the purpose and the integrity of the discussions held here. --FLO--

I don't even want to think about calling what I believe a religion, and I am sure if one separates it from life, it will fall apart.

Ooh and Moi, just visit www.castigatio.nl

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moi621 (imported) wrote: Sun May 31, 2009 8:53 pm Who Can Hear The Sound Of One Hand Clapping

"

and you will hear it

loveUall

Jean

Ugly day to start the thread considering that Right-Wing Gunmen shot down a doctor in Church this morning. Which begs the ugly questions -- When is murder in a church justified? IS it OK to shoot only an Usher of the Church while his wife and kids watch? Or should we wait until after the service when they are not present?

It is an ugly day to justify murder, ain't it?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31029377/

Kristoff, my impression is that people are far more interested in religion and politics than in religion and philosophy.